Man Gets Prison Sentence For Collecting Rainwater On His Property

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Collecting Rainwater
Collecting Rainwater

Collecting rainwater on your own property in the U.S. can now lead to jail time, as has been proven by a man from Oregon who was sentenced to prison for doing just that.  Who owns the rain? The US government, apparently.

Not so long ago, it was common practice across much of the world to collect rainwater into man made wells on your property to use for farming, irrigation and having fresh clean water.  It was just as common as canning your own food, having knowledge of at least some basic survival skills, and being self-sufficient.

It wasn’t even that many generations ago that all of this was common practice – people born before WWII were pretty adept at these skills, as they were a necessity to survival.  One of the main (and easiest) ways to ensure survival was to collecting rainwater on your own property.  The practical uses for storing and collecting rainwater are numerous and many people across the world in rural areas still do it today for all of the reasons listed above.  However, over the past few years, laws making the collection of rainwater illegal have been causing an uproar across the US.

Now, a man from Grey Point, Oregon has been sentenced to thirty days in prison for storing collected rainwater on his very own property – and the public is outraged.

According to CNS News (source):

A rural Oregon man was sentenced Wednesday to 30 days in jail and over $1,500 in fines because he had three reservoirs on his property to collect and use rainwater.

collecting rainwater

Gary Harrington of Eagle Point, Ore., says he plans to appeal his conviction in Jackson County (Ore.) Circuit Court on nine misdemeanor charges under a 1925 law for having what state water managers called “three illegal reservoirs” on his property – and for filling the reservoirs with rainwater and snow runoff.

“The government is bullying,” Harrington told CNSNews.com in an interview Thursday.

“They’ve just gotten to be big bullies and if you just lay over and die and give up, that just makes them bigger bullies. So, we as Americans, we need to stand on our constitutional rights, on our rights as citizens and hang tough. This is a good country, we’ll prevail,” he said.

The court has given Harrington two weeks to report to the Jackson County Jail to begin serving his sentence.

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Harrington said the case first began in 2002, when state water managers told him there were complaints about the three “reservoirs” – ponds – on his more than 170 acres of land.

According to Oregon water laws, all water is publicly owned. Therefore, anyone who wants to store any type of water on their property must first obtain a permit from state water managers.

Harrington said he applied for three permits to legally house reservoirs for storm and snow water runoff on his property. One of the “reservoirs” had been on his property for 37 years, he said.

Though the state Water Resources Department initially approved his permits in 2003, the state – and a state court — ultimately reversed the decision.

“They issued me my permits. I had my permits in hand and they retracted them just arbitrarily, basically. They took them back and said ‘No, you can’t have them,’ so I’ve been fighting it ever since,” Harrington told CNSNews.com.

The case, he said, is centered on a 1925 law which states that the city of Medford holds exclusive rights to “all core sources of water” in the Big Butte Creek watershed and its tributaries.

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“Way back in 1925 the city of Medford got a unique withdrawal that withdrew all — supposedly all — the water out of a single basin and supposedly for the benefit of the city of Medford,” Harrington told CNSNews.com.

Harrington told CNSNews.com, however, that the 1925 law doesn’t mention anything about colleting rainwater or snow melt — and he believes that he has been falsely accused.

“The withdrawal said the stream and its tributaries. It didn’t mention anything about rainwater and it didn’t mention anything about snow melt and it didn’t mention anything about diffused water, but yet now, they’re trying to expand that to include that rain water and they’re using me as the goat to do it,” Harrington

But Tom Paul, administrator of the Oregon Water Resources Department, claims that Harrington has been violating the state’s water use law by diverting water from streams running into the Big Butte River.

“The law that he is actually violating is not the 1925 provision, but it’s Oregon law that says all of the water in the state of Oregon is public water and if you want to use that water, either to divert it or to store it, you have to acquire a water right from the state of Oregon before doing that activity,” Paul told CNSNews.com.

Yet Paul admitted the 1925 law does apply because, he said, Harrington constructed dams to block a tributary to the Big Butte, which Medford uses for its water supply.

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“There are dams across channels, water channels where the water would normally flow if it were not for the dam and so those dams are stopping the water from flowing in the channel and storing it- holding it so it cannot flow downstream,” Paul told CNSNews.com.

Harrington, however, argued in court that that he is not diverting water from Big Butte Creek, but the dams capturing the rainwater and snow runoff – or “diffused water” – are on his own property and that therefore the runoff does not fall under the jurisdiction of the state water managers, nor does it not violate the 1925 act.

In 2007, a Jackson County Circuit Court judge denied Harrington’s permits and found that he had illegally “withdrawn the water at issue from appropriation other than for the City of Medford.”

According to Paul, Harrington entered a guilty plea at the time, received three years probation and was ordered to open up the water gates.

“A very short period of time following the expiration of his probation, he once again closed the gates and re-filled the reservoirs,” Paul told CNSNews.com. “So, this has been going on for some time and I think frankly the court felt that Mr. Harrington was not getting the message and decided that they’d already given him probation once and required him to open the gates and he refilled his reservoirs and it was business as usual for him, so I think the court wanted — it felt it needed — to give a stiffer penalty to get Mr. Harrington’s attention.”

In two weeks, if unsuccessful in his appeals, Harrington told CNSNews.com that he will report to the Jackson County Jail to serve his sentence.

“I follow the rules. If I’m mandated to report, I’m going to report. Of course, I’m going to do what it takes in the meantime to prevent that, but if I’m not successful, I’ll be there,” Harrington said.

But Harrington also said that he will never stop fighting the government on this issue.

“When something is wrong, you just, as an American citizen, you have to put your foot down and say, ‘This is wrong; you just can’t take away anymore of my rights and from here on in, I’m going to fight it.”

What are your thoughts on collecting rainwater – especially when it is on your own property?  Who do you think should “own” the rain?

This article was originally published in 2015 and is frequently updated

Royce Christyn

Royce Christyn

Journalist at News Punch
Documentarian, Writer, Producer, Director, Author.
Royce Christyn

1,113 Comments

    • I agree, this story has been out there for a while, as most people don’t understand the basics on “water rights” so it gets sympathetic ears.
      For example I have a small creek running through my property fed by springs and run off from my neighbors property, I and my heirs have been using it since 1890. A thief like this guy buys my neighbors property and starts to develop the springs for his own use. That is against the law, just because you are the farthest upstream doesn’t give you the right to water historically claimed by someone farther down stream.

      I won’t even start on the environmental issues of self constructing dams, sedimentation, etc.

      • I also have a creek on my property, which flows into the Susquehanna. If I put up a dam, I’d be in trouble too. But if I put up rain barrels, nobody would care. These misleading headlines just keep Americans stupid.

      • The key words here are” you have been using it” I fail to see any difference between Harrington and you. You are a thief from anyone downstream from your property. Typical dual standard.

    • I agree, this story has been out there for a while, as most people don’t understand the basics on “water rights” so it gets sympathetic ears.
      For example I have a small creek running through my property fed by springs and run off from my neighbors property, I and my heirs have been using it since 1890. A thief like this guy buys my neighbors property and starts to develop the springs for his own use. That is against the law, just because you are the farthest upstream doesn’t give you the right to water historically claimed by someone farther down stream.

      I won’t even start on the environmental issues of self constructing dams, sedimentation, etc.

    • I also have a creek on my property, which flows into the Susquehanna. If I put up a dam, I’d be in trouble too. But if I put up rain barrels, nobody would care. These misleading headlines just keep Americans stupid.

    • The key words here are” you have been using it” I fail to see any difference between Harrington and you. You are a thief from anyone downstream from your property. Typical dual standard.

  1. Declaring public all water such as Medford has creates the usual unintended consequences for greedy government. The best one I can come up with is that if you claim the rainwater you are responsible for any flood damages that it causes! That is how I would vote if I was on a jury.
    The other issue is that if it is government rain, keep it off my property! I hope Harrington prevails in this.

    • I think you’ll see things differently if read up on the law and the actual charges. That is if you want to understand what’s happened rather than just react to media spin designed to make you a pawn in someone else’s game. Oregon -(not Medford)riparian law is a hundred years old. Anyone along a stream is allowed to use a reasonable amount of water. but not so much as to harm downstream users,and wildlife habitat. Catching rain is legal. If you want to see what happens without such safeguards take a look at the dry concrete troughs where the streams in the L.A. in S. California basin used to be.

        • The reason why such rivers are drying up has nothing to do with rainwater collection. It’s about over extraction from the rivers. It’s happening right now to the Colorado river, for example:

          http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33117956

          California, who is heavily impacted by this river, has ordered a reduction in use. They are talking about the rainwater collection issue as a solution here:

          http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why-does-california-let-billions-of-gallons-of-fresh-water-flow-straight-into-the-ocean/

          In this discussion they actually mentioned an Australia living case study of using rainwater collection to prevent pretty much all of the problems you mentioned>

          California later concluded that rainwater harvesting can mitigate the impact of the drought:

          http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-california-finds-collecting-rainwater-can-ease-drought.html

          Remember, it’s still raining just as much – as an annual average – it’s just that collecting rainwater prevents an entire state from having to rely on a single river. It also spreads out the impact over time.

          • I have 20 years of experience collecting rainwater, and operating private rural water systems – how ‘ bout you? Harrington was not collecting rainwater-, he had dams , docks boathouses , he was diverting a stream, and he pled guilty. Rivers drying up has everything to do with humans not thinking habitat and downstream users matter- and /or not caring, which is why Oregon’s water laws exist. This piece is flat demagoguery, intentionally misleading

          • None of that matters. It is functionally no different than creating a pond on your property and making use of that water. Sure, you are essentially preventing the flow of water away, but only to the extent of the capacity of the reservoir. It can still technically flow out so the environmental impact is no different from any other such reservoir. In fact, many city owned reservoirs are built the exact same way and actually end up improving conditions. I actually grew up near an Earthen Dam lake that was at least 50 feet tall and it definitely restricted the flow of water, but it still flowed and it provided a habitat.

            You can see pictures of his “reservoirs” here:

            http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/08/16/man-jailed-for-collecting-rainwater-in-illegal-reservoirs-on-his-property/

            These are, quite simply, man made lakes. Can you provide a source that shows that lakes cause the problems you suggest? On the contrary, I would argue that a court order to dry up a lake is going to have the larger environmental impact.

            My point still remains that the practice of collecting rainwater – even in these quantities – actually help by preventing as much from flowing into the sea. If I wanted to devote my land to developing a lake reservoir I should have that right.

            Speaking of which, I live along the widest bend of the MIssissippi river. There are frequent droughts and floods. The city has an actual flood plain area near the levy system to prevent it from bursting. Just last night the torrential rain was so heavy that the street was turned into a river and I had to skip a day of university because I could not safely get through it. (The same floods hinder river shipping and destroy crops which directly results in higher food prices for the rest of the country) In the same area the caves that run beneath my property get so dry that I have to have special mine subsidence insurance to guard against collapse. The average rainfall on my land is only about 200k a year, but when you combine heavy street flow that ends up being over 1 Million gallons a year that flows over my land. If I installed a 10 Million gallon underground reservoir using a modular rainwater collection system it would collect most of the water during a heavy rain season, help irrigate my crops without putting strain on the system, and if I put in a few small ponds would help protect wildlife. Such a system would be comparable to the 13 Million gallon system you are talking about, and it’s something I honestly plan on having put it sometime in the future because the public water systems are not able to keep up with demand and I need to protect myself and my operations from the losses associated with drought.

            The way I am planning it is pretty simple: Construct underground filtration and collection pipes beneath my crops. After rain falls on my crops it would pass through the soil and collect in an artificial ground water system.

            So, taking my case as an example, what is the harm? Now, to take it further, what if I designed my system to have two overflow points? In a rainy season it would collect to the top, but in a dry season the collection would be set to overflow into the natural water table far beneath my land. Most of that water would never have reached the water table so doing so would protect my land against collapse while protecting neighbors from flooding and ensure I have enough water for my crops.

            What is the harm? Please cite your sources.

            EDIT: In desert climates people near rivers would grow melons as a convenient store of water that was also easy to transport. If he instead built a watermelon farm and then later extracted pure water from his watermelons it would probably be legal, but would have just as great of an impact on the water flow. Why does the type of water store matter?

          • A water butt and a pond is slightly different to 3 massive lakes / reservoirs with boats on!

          • The article did also talk about the dams that this guy has to divert water and that he has in fact been doing so.

          • A pond or mini-lake system does create more environmental habitat, but also more surface area for evaporation, so that water goes back into the sky. Rainwater that is collected and used, is eventually discharged back into the environment.

          • Until it was struck down by the courts teh EPA attempted to make temporary standing water into wet lands. So if it rained hard and you had water standing in your front yard now your front yard would have been considered federal wet land.

          • Harrison’s dams caused his ponds to cover existing streams. The mountainous terrain in Jackson county Oregon is quite different than the Mississippi flood plane,I’ve lived in both. Your comparisons are only general and don;t address the specific case.

          • Rough estimate , 1 gallon per melon , 2000 per acre- probably on the high side- about 6.5 thousand acres . Don’t think Harrington has that much land

          • You are baking up the wrong tree there. There is also the question of what else uses the river, and for what purpose. Salmon and steelhead use the rivers to spawn in. A process which is messed up by putting dams on the rivers that have no means for the fish to get above them. I know this because the Amy Corp of Engineers built a lot of dams up here. None of which have a passive means for the fish to get over, or around the dams. All of which have caused the natural runs on the rivers they disrupt to collapse.

            You asked for evidence that lakes create problems? Now you know that they can. I believe the dams can also be made to make bigger runs than had previously existed, but there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of will to make that happen. I have talked to a lot of people about it, and it seems like there are 2 camps. One wants to remove the dams (and put the entire valley at risk of being flooded), and the other seems to want to kick the can down the road, and try band-aid fixes until the water demand of people has eclipsed any ecological concern.

            -Oz

          • I agree it’s misleading.

            He was using the water for his own personal gain and was given probation – he went against a court ruling after pleading guilty and now is in prison and rightly so – rivers are protected because of wildlife. Thousands of species of animals, mammals and plants depend on the natural flow of water.

          • im sure no animals make use of the reservoirs/ponds/lakes on his property and im sure he dosnt let a single drop go down stream ever, right?

            im sure that if the govt gos in and blows up his dams and such that it will ensure that everybody downstream gets more water specially on long dry summers when the streams dry up, because a dry former pond/lake/wtfe is going to provide a much better buffer against drought for everybody 😉

          • @ AshenTech you can generalize all you want , but the specifics are ,he set up dams so that existing streams did not get the water he trapped. He was not catching rainwater, which is legal. He could have built ponds on his property that did not disrupt riparian rights and habitat of those downstream , but he didn’t

          • The pics are of different rain collection set ups somewhere , not at Harrington’s place And the picture of the guy with his head in his hands is not him. The headline and pics are intentionally misleading.

          • Did you say 20 yrs of liberalism like Obama’s anti american church going with Gerald Wright and his muslim upbringing? No wonder why you and other big government retards are brain dead! Water don’t belong to any government you moron.

          • I didn’t say it had anything to do with rainwater collection -it has to do with mismanagement , that treats doesn’t consider downstream users ,and natural habitat to be as important as some humn’s interest in profit. Harrington wasn;t doing rainwater collection .

          • And it so easy to just direct your rain gutters in to a bucket barrel, or like me: Ahhhhh Thousand Gallon Tank.

      • Once the pond is full…there is typically a spillway for overrun. It would be the same if a beaver had built a dam. The beaver has use of some of the water and water still flows downstream. Of course this concept is foreign to bureaucrats and liberals who have never set foot outside their condos…

        • What the fuck does being a liberal have to do with it? You certainly seem to have understanding about nothing.

          • Everything! Liberals are facist tyrrants and some of us are not part of the demoncrat and repubican dictatorship dumbass!

          • I’ll rephrase it especially for you: …this concept is foreign to bureaucrats who have never existed outside of their office, anyone who has never lived in a rural area, or has no concept of dams, physics and/or lacks common sense.

          • ‘ll rephrase it especially for you too: …this concept is foreign to bureaucrats who have never existed outside of their office, anyone who has never lived in a rural area, or has no concept of dams, physics and/or lacks common sense. Several engineering degrees trumps your snide remark. Liberal and fascist seem to be synonymous these days…

        • I consider myself politically liberal yet I know all beavers, dams, and water flows. And I do not live in a condo. Scapegoating and name calling will not fix anything.

      • Dry concrete in waterways in California have nothing to do with the fact that Cali is a desert, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that Cali has no water of its own, right? Or that it’s population is unsustainable by its own resources, right? It all due to a guy collecting rain water, of course. Good grief.

        • I said no such thing. I presented an example of waterways that have not been maintained in their natural state, preserving riparian rights and habitat. Socal is vastly overpopulated,and past water management practices that allowed that growth have been devastating. Look at what’s happening to Hoover dam- it;s not expected t ever return to previous levels and is silting out, down stream areas becoming infertile due soil becoming too saline, from water being held in reservoirs. Lake Powell has lost 8 million acre feet of water, and loses more than the whole state of Nevada’s allotment each year. Oregon’s water laws are designed to maintain the waterways in their natural state, and serve reasonable needs of humans and habitat . so such disaster don;t happen, through just assuming anyone can use the resource however they please with no concerned for secondary effects. Harrington was given 10 years to work it out. He plead guilty , then refused to meet the agreements he signed, and chose jail for drama. Probably paid off by wise use /sage brush fronts for big corps who want to be able to own all water resources.

          • If I am remembering correctly CA has two desalination plants coming online in the next 3 years. These plants will produce several million gallons of fresh water per day. In fact I also read that CA is going to be selling water to AZ & NV. So they can refill there reservoirs.

          • You are spot on with Big Corporations owning water!!
            If you want to drink California Water, go to the store a buy a bottle of Disani!!
            Coca Cola is Shipping your water out as fast as nature can make it!!

          • NESTLE has been “stealing” water in BC because the stupid govt gives it to them for about a $1.25 per billion liters

          • I think the point you’re missing is this guy was jailed for collecting rain & storing it in “reservoirs.” That would have zero effect on the Riparian Water Rights, since there is no stream or river involved. If you argue runoff goes into streams, you’d have to prove the water he collects would otherwise actually get into a stream somewhere. It appears it does not. Saying it might affect the water table below ground is also absurd, very little rain runoff gets into that table, if any. Around here (“drylands” farming country) more farmers want to drill water wells for irrigation & the water tables are getting too low to sustain unlimited use. There are limits to everything, mankind just has to figure out how to engineer sustainability in everything we consume or else. When everything is used up, we’ll just end. I’ve always felt earlier civilizations might have done just that, eaten themselves into extinction. Proof of that might be deep under desert sand, and perhaps someday, we’ll know about them, but meanwhile, we’d better start being smart about what we do to Mother Earth before she kills us.

          • But I think I read something about dams. The article said he was damming something. Would you dam a pond? It also said this has been going on for 10 years and that he was told and given probation. I don’t think he should be charged for collecting rain water but if he is damming something that feeds other sources of water, I can see the problem. Yes indeed we better get smart and take better care of the earth and get rid of greedy companies that cause us so much harm.

          • You aren’t from the Country are ya? what do you think keeps the water in a pond? That would be a dam. and the dam, has a culvert in it, which allows excess water to run out, so the pond won’t overfill and the damn burst. Ponds are built using ground that has a big ditch, & damming up the “back” side of the ditch.

          • Your blessed cement aquaducts (the LA River) are exactly what is going to happen to the Upper Willamette. Right now ODFW, and the Army Corp of Engineers are working to get rid of bass fishing in Oregon. What none of the sponge-heads involved seem to understand is that they are participating in the dooming of that river system.

            Because when they designed the dams, they did not bother to account for salmon and steelhead needing to get above where the dams were placed, the runs have been preserved by several bullshit means that invariably require people to help salmon do what they naturally do. This has put the runs under constant threat of the state simply giving up on maintaining them.

            In the process, some moron decided that Largemouth Bass are the problem and that they need to get rid of all “non-native warm water species”. Apparently someone is either really smart, or really stupid, because over the last 40 years, Largemouth Bass has become a far more prized fishery than the salmon and steelhead runs. So by killing off those bass fisheries, they not only have not brought the salmon and steelhead back, but they also got rid of at least one fishery (and are in the process of getting rid of a few others) that was drawing invaluable economic activity to this state. Now the ODFW has started a new round of increases on fishing licenses that is supposed to raise the price $5 every year for the next few years because of declining participation. So they are killing the reasons to fish in Oregon on one side, and charging us because of their failure to think/plan clearly on the other.

            All of this (imho) is part of a concerted effort to rob us of the water. Bass fishing was the biggest cash draw, and they are killing that off. Once bass fishing is gone, they will get rid of the salmon and steelhead runs, and stop planting trout. Then the fisheries will collapse, and they will be free to sell off the water without anyone left to complain about it….Just like they did with the LA river…

            -Oz

          • You can thank your borderless liberals and their illegal aliens for that! All the governments, courts and their police are corrupt tyrrants!

          • And what has any of your liberal logic got to do with a man collecting RAIN WATER on his own property?????

        • …we folks up here in Northern California have plenty of water, but it is shipped down south where all the “money” is…and where they sell a water permit to whores like Nestle for $500 bucks per year, but allow them to drain the aquifers and sell their bottled water with almost zero raw ingredient costs. Huge profits that are going into corrupt politician’s bank accounts. I say we drag every member of government in this country out of their offices by their hair, charge and convict them for treason…and start hanging them from lamp poles across the country.
          RJ O’Guillory

          • Anyone with a brain know there is no draught with the Pacific ocean and the ability to build more desaltinization plants. The Nazis in Sacramento and their enforcers need to be eliminated by hanging.

          • …l always use the phrase…charge an convict for treason, and then hang…as that is the “legal process” and I cannot be charged with inciting a riot or felonious conduct. I do think the outcome should be the same though…
            RJ O’Guillory

        • California are run by nazi liberals. There is no drought! We have the Pacific ocean and these commies are scamming the public by closing down nuclear plants and desaltinization water plants and not building new ones. Liberals and their nazi big government has always been the problem.

      • The dry concrete aqueducts in Los Angeles (and large parts of Central California) were dried out by the State of California. In some moronic bid to “save” a non-endangered feeder fish, the Delta Smelt, the state diverted trillions of gallons of fresh water into the ocean.

        Suddenly, there’s a drought! No, just more idiots in government.

      • That is the dumbest thing I have heard, collecting RAIN is not going to dry up anything. As for the dry concrete troughs in LA, You know nothing about the history of the LA River. It was prone to heavy flooding that was one reason why they poured concrete over the river. there have been talks of taking out the concrete. Anyway, that is another story, and has Nothing to do with collecting rain water, It just comes down to plain GREED

        • You will only have high blood pressure like me trying to reason with liberal facists brain dead WALKING ZOMBIES! Liberalism is a mental disorder. Dr. Michael Savage made a correct examination of their mental condition. Don’t destroy your health by debating or spending time with liberal big government nazis or islamists!

      • …do you need some new knee pads? I presume you suck so much corrupt government cock that you may be on your knees a lot? How about a new pair of knee pads to help with those creaky old knees of yours…perhaps then you can bend over and take it up your ass from these traitors….GFY…
        RJ O’Guillory

        • LOL! You again?! Same hateful, self promoting drivel. Literally everything you say is your pathetic attempt at making an American Dollar ( heavy sexual puns come standard, why exactly? ). You are a joke sir. Bat.Shit.Crazy. Joke.

    • I don’t care a twit about the law. The law is being abused and taken out of context…as is usual in this nation. Common sense, the reasonable man standard, the generally accepted practice…natural right…all tells me the rain is owned by NOBODY but once it falls on your land it is YOURS. But you try and get lawyers to use common sense. That’s why the nation is in a damned mess. We keep electing lawyers to Congress instead of actual everyday people who ‘get it’.

  2. Declaring public all water such as Medford has creates the usual unintended consequences for greedy government. The best one I can come up with is that if you claim the rainwater you are responsible for any flood damages that it causes! That is how I would vote if I was on a jury.
    The other issue is that if it is government rain, keep it off my property! I hope Harrington prevails in this.

    • I think you’ll see things differently if read up on the law and the actual charges. That is if you want to understand what’s happened rather than just react to media spin designed to make you a pawn in someone else’s game. Oregon -(not Medford)riparian law is a hundred years old. Anyone along a stream is allowed to use a reasonable amount of water. but not so much as to harm downstream users,and wildlife habitat. Catching rain is legal. If you want to see what happens without such safeguards take a look at the dry concrete troughs where the streams in the L.A. in S. California basin used to be.

    • The reason why such rivers are drying up has nothing to do with rainwater collection. It’s about over extraction from the rivers. It’s happening right now to the Colorado river, for example:

      http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33117956

      California, who is heavily impacted by this river, has ordered a reduction in use. They are talking about the rainwater collection issue as a solution here:

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why-does-california-let-billions-of-gallons-of-fresh-water-flow-straight-into-the-ocean/

      In this discussion they actually mentioned an Australia living case study of using rainwater collection to prevent pretty much all of the problems you mentioned>

      California later concluded that rainwater harvesting can mitigate the impact of the drought:

      http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-california-finds-collecting-rainwater-can-ease-drought.html

      Remember, it’s still raining just as much – as an annual average – it’s just that collecting rainwater prevents an entire state from having to rely on a single river. It also spreads out the impact over time.

    • I have 20 years of experience collecting rainwater, and operating private rural water systems – how ‘ bout you? Harrington was not collecting rainwater-, he had dams , docks boathouses , he was diverting a stream, and he pled guilty. Rivers drying up has everything to do with humans not thinking habitat and downstream users matter- and /or not caring, which is why Oregon’s water laws exist. This piece is flat demagoguery, intentionally misleading

    • None of that matters. It is functionally no different than creating a pond on your property and making use of that water. Sure, you are essentially preventing the flow of water away, but only to the extent of the capacity of the reservoir. It can still technically flow out so the environmental impact is no different from any other such reservoir. In fact, many city owned reservoirs are built the exact same way and actually end up improving conditions. I actually grew up near an Earthen Dam lake that was at least 50 feet tall and it definitely restricted the flow of water, but it still flowed and it provided a habitat.

      You can see pictures of his “reservoirs” here:

      http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/08/16/man-jailed-for-collecting-rainwater-in-illegal-reservoirs-on-his-property/

      These are, quite simply, man made lakes. Can you provide a source that shows that lakes cause the problems you suggest? On the contrary, I would argue that a court order to dry up a lake is going to have the larger environmental impact.

      My point still remains that the practice of collecting rainwater – even in these quantities – actually help by preventing as much from flowing into the sea. If I wanted to devote my land to developing a lake reservoir I should have that right.

      Speaking of which, I live along the widest bend of the MIssissippi river. There are frequent droughts and floods. The city has an actual flood plain area near the levy system to prevent it from bursting. Just last night the torrential rain was so heavy that the street was turned into a river and I had to skip a day of university because I could not safely get through it. (The same floods hinder river shipping and destroy crops which directly results in higher food prices for the rest of the country) In the same area the caves that run beneath my property get so dry that I have to have special mine subsidence insurance to guard against collapse. The average rainfall on my land is only about 200k a year, but when you combine heavy street flow that ends up being over 1 Million gallons a year that flows over my land. If I installed a 10 Million gallon underground reservoir using a modular rainwater collection system it would collect most of the water during a heavy rain season, help irrigate my crops without putting strain on the system, and if I put in a few small ponds would help protect wildlife. Such a system would be comparable to the 13 Million gallon system you are talking about, and it’s something I honestly plan on having put it sometime in the future because the public water systems are not able to keep up with demand and I need to protect myself and my operations from the losses associated with drought.

      The way I am planning it is pretty simple: Construct underground filtration and collection pipes beneath my crops. After rain falls on my crops it would pass through the soil and collect in an artificial ground water system.

      So, taking my case as an example, what is the harm? Now, to take it further, what if I designed my system to have two overflow points? In a rainy season it would collect to the top, but in a dry season the collection would be set to overflow into the natural water table far beneath my land. Most of that water would never have reached the water table so doing so would protect my land against collapse while protecting neighbors from flooding and ensure I have enough water for my crops.

      What is the harm? Please cite your sources.

      EDIT: In desert climates people near rivers would grow melons as a convenient store of water that was also easy to transport. If he instead built a watermelon farm and then later extracted pure water from his watermelons it would probably be legal, but would have just as great of an impact on the water flow. Why does the type of water store matter?

    • I agree it’s misleading.

      He was using the water for his own personal gain and was given probation – he went against a court ruling after pleading guilty and now is in prison and rightly so – rivers are protected because of wildlife. Thousands of species of animals, mammals and plants depend on the natural flow of water.

    • A water butt and a pond is slightly different to 3 massive lakes / reservoirs with boats on!

    • im sure no animals make use of the reservoirs/ponds/lakes on his property and im sure he dosnt let a single drop go down stream ever, right?

      im sure that if the govt gos in and blows up his dams and such that it will ensure that everybody downstream gets more water specially on long dry summers when the streams dry up, because a dry former pond/lake/wtfe is going to provide a much better buffer against drought for everybody 😉

    • The article did also talk about the dams that this guy has to divert water and that he has in fact been doing so.

    • A pond or mini-lake system does create more environmental habitat, but also more surface area for evaporation, so that water goes back into the sky. Rainwater that is collected and used, is eventually discharged back into the environment.

      It’s funny because some states and/or Feds ban any tampering with “wetlands” which are areas that get flooded and drain slowly if at all. There’s probably a comparable law that would forbid him from draining his lakes! The difference might be in the dam itself, if it had natural causes (tree fall or beavers), leave it alone!

    • Until it was struck down by the courts teh EPA attempted to make temporary standing water into wet lands. So if it rained hard and you had water standing in your front yard now your front yard would have been considered federal wet land.

    • Once the pond is full…there is typically a spillway for overrun. It would be the same if a beaver had built a dam. The beaver has use of some of the water and water still flows downstream. Of course this concept is foreign to bureaucrats and liberals who have never set foot outside their condos…

    • Dry concrete in waterways in California have nothing to do with the fact that Cali is a desert, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that Cali has no water of its own, right? Or that it’s population is unsustainable by its own resources, right? It all due to a guy collecting rain water, of course. Good grief.

    • @ AshenTech you can generalize all you want , but the specifics are ,he set up dams so that existing streams did not get the water he trapped. He was not catching rainwater, which is legal. He could have built ponds on his property that did not disrupt riparian rights and habitat of those downstream , but he didn’t

    • Harrison’s dams caused his ponds to cover existing streams. The mountainous terrain in Jackson county Oregon is quite different than the Mississippi flood plane,I’ve lived in both. Your comparisons are only general and don;t address the specific case.

    • I said no such thing. I presented an example of waterways that have not been maintained in their natural state, preserving riparian rights and habitat. Socal is vastly overpopulated,and past water management practices that allowed that growth have been devastating. Look at what’s happening to Hoover dam- it;s not expected t ever return to previous levels and is silting out, down stream areas becoming infertile due soil becoming too saline, from water being held in reservoirs. Lake Powell has lost 8 million acre feet of water, and loses more than the whole state of Nevada’s allotment each year. Oregon’s water laws are designed to maintain the waterways in their natural state, and serve reasonable needs of humans and habitat . so such disasters don’t happen, through just assuming anyone can use the resource however they please with no concern for secondary effects. Harrington was given 10 years to work it out. He plead guilty , then refused to meet the agreements he signed, and chose jail for drama. Probably paid off by wise use /sage brush fronts for big corps who want to be able to own all water resources.

    • I didn’t say it had anything to do with rainwater collection -it has to do with mismanagement , that doesn’t consider downstream users ,and natural habitat to be as important as some human’s interest in profit. Harrington wasn;t doing rainwater collection .

    • The dry concrete aqueducts in Los Angeles (and large parts of Central California) were dried out by the State of California. In some moronic bid to “save” a non-endangered feeder fish, the Delta Smelt, the state diverted trillions of gallons of fresh water into the ocean.

      Suddenly, there’s a drought! No, just more idiots in government.

    • Rough estimate , 1 gallon per melon , 2000 per acre- probably on the high side- about 6.5 thousand acres . Don’t think Harrington has that much land

    • And it so easy to just direct your rain gutters in to a bucket barrel, or like me: Ahhhhh Thousand Gallon Tank.

    • The pics are of different rain collection set ups somewhere , not at Harrington’s place And the picture of the guy with his head in his hands is not him. The headline and pics are intentionally misleading.

    • If I am remembering correctly CA has two desalination plants coming online in the next 3 years. These plants will produce several million gallons of fresh water per day. In fact I also read that CA is going to be selling water to AZ & NV. So they can refill there reservoirs.

    • That is the dumbest thing I have heard, collecting RAIN is not going to dry up anything. As for the dry concrete troughs in LA, You know nothing about the history of the LA River. It was prone to heavy flooding that was one reason why they poured concrete over the river. there have been talks of taking out the concrete. Anyway, that is another story, and has Nothing to do with collecting rain water, It just comes down to plain GREED

    • You are spot on with Big Corporations owning water!!
      If you want to drink California Water, go to the store a buy a bottle of Disani!!
      Coca Cola is Shipping your water out as fast as nature can make it!!

    • I think the point you’re missing is this guy was jailed for collecting rain & storing it in “reservoirs.” That would have zero effect on the Riparian Water Rights, since there is no stream or river involved. If you argue runoff goes into streams, you’d have to prove the water he collects would otherwise actually get into a stream somewhere. It appears it does not. Saying it might affect the water table below ground is also absurd, very little rain runoff gets into that table, if any. Around here (“drylands” farming country) more farmers want to drill water wells for irrigation & the water tables are getting too low to sustain unlimited use. There are limits to everything, mankind just has to figure out how to engineer sustainability in everything we consume or else. When everything is used up, we’ll just end. I’ve always felt earlier civilizations might have done just that, eaten themselves into extinction. Proof of that might be deep under desert sand, and perhaps someday, we’ll know about them, but meanwhile, we’d better start being smart about what we do to Mother Earth before she kills us.

    • What the fuck does being a liberal have to do with it? You certainly seem to have understanding about nothing.

    • Your blessed cement aquaducts (the LA River) are exactly what is going to happen to the Upper Willamette. Right now ODFW, and the Army Corp of Engineers are working to get rid of bass fishing in Oregon. What none of the sponge-heads involved seem to understand is that they are participating in the dooming of that river system.

      Because when they designed the dams, they did not bother to account for salmon and steelhead needing to get above where the dams were placed, the runs have been preserved by several bullshit means that invariably require people to help salmon do what they naturally do. This has put the runs under constant threat of the state simply giving up on maintaining them.

      In the process, some moron decided that Largemouth Bass are the problem and that they need to get rid of all “non-native warm water species”. Apparently someone is either really smart, or really stupid, because over the last 40 years, Largemouth Bass has become a far more prized fishery than the salmon and steelhead runs. So by killing off those bass fisheries, they not only have not brought the salmon and steelhead back, but they also got rid of at least one fishery (and are in the process of getting rid of a few others) that was drawing invaluable economic activity to this state. Now the ODFW has started a new round of increases on fishing licenses that is supposed to raise the price $5 every year for the next few years because of declining participation. So they are killing the reasons to fish in Oregon on one side, and charging us because of their failure to think/plan clearly on the other.

      All of this (imho) is part of a concerted effort to rob us of the water. Bass fishing was the biggest cash draw, and they are killing that off. Once bass fishing is gone, they will get rid of the salmon and steelhead runs, and stop planting trout. Then the fisheries will collapse, and they will be free to sell off the water without anyone left to complain about it….Just like they did with the LA river…

      -Oz

    • You are baking up the wrong tree there. There is also the question of what else uses the river, and for what purpose. Salmon and steelhead use the rivers to spawn in. A process which is messed up by putting dams on the rivers that have no means for the fish to get above them. I know this because the Amy Corp of Engineers built a lot of dams up here. None of which have a passive means for the fish to get over, or around the dams. All of which have caused the natural runs on the rivers they disrupt to collapse.

      You asked for evidence that lakes create problems? Now you know that they can. I believe the dams can also be made to make bigger runs than had previously existed, but there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of will to make that happen. I have talked to a lot of people about it, and it seems like there are 2 camps. One wants to remove the dams (and put the entire valley at risk of being flooded), and the other seems to want to kick the can down the road, and try band-aid fixes until the water demand of people has eclipsed any ecological concern.

      -Oz

    • …do you need some new knee pads? I presume you suck so much corrupt government cock that you may be on your knees a lot? How about a new pair of knee pads to help with those creaky old knees of yours…perhaps then you can bend over and take it up your ass from these traitors….GFY…
      RJ O’Guillory

    • …we folks up here in Northern California have plenty of water, but it is shipped down south where all the “money” is…and where they sell a water permit to whores like Nestle for $500 bucks per year, but allow them to drain the aquifers and sell their bottled water with almost zero raw ingredient costs. Huge profits that are going into corrupt politician’s bank accounts. I say we drag every member of government in this country out of their offices by their hair, charge and convict them for treason…and start hanging them from lamp poles across the country.
      RJ O’Guillory

    • NESTLE has been “stealing” water in BC because the stupid govt gives it to them for about a $1.25 per billion liters

    • I don’t care a twit about the law. The law is being abused and taken out of context…as is usual in this nation. Common sense, the reasonable man standard, the generally accepted practice…natural right…all tells me the rain is owned by NOBODY but once it falls on your land it is YOURS. But you try and get lawyers to use common sense. That’s why the nation is in a damned mess. We keep electing lawyers to Congress instead of actual everyday people who ‘get it’.

    • California are run by nazi liberals. There is no drought! We have the Pacific ocean and these commies are scamming the public by closing down nuclear plants and desaltinization water plants and not building new ones. Liberals and their nazi big government has always been the problem.

    • Anyone with a brain know there is no draught with the Pacific ocean and the ability to build more desaltinization plants. The Nazis in Sacramento and their enforcers need to be eliminated by hanging.

    • You can thank your borderless liberals and their illegal aliens for that! All the governments, courts and their police are corrupt tyrrants!

    • Everything! Liberals are facist tyrrants and some of us are not part of the demoncrat and repubican dictatorship dumbass!

    • You will only have high blood pressure like me trying to reason with liberal facists brain dead WALKING ZOMBIES! Liberalism is a mental disorder. Dr. Michael Savage made a correct examination of their mental condition. Don’t destroy your health by debating or spending time with liberal big government nazis or islamists!

    • Did you say 20 yrs of liberalism like Obama’s anti american church going with Gerald Wright and his muslim upbringing? No wonder why you and other big government retards are brain dead! Water don’t belong to any government you moron.

    • And what has any of your liberal logic got to do with a man collecting RAIN WATER on his own property?????

    • …l always use the phrase…charge an convict for treason, and then hang…as that is the “legal process” and I cannot be charged with inciting a riot or felonious conduct. I do think the outcome should be the same though…
      RJ O’Guillory

    • LOL! You again?! Same hateful, self promoting drivel. Literally everything you say is your pathetic attempt at making an American Dollar ( heavy sexual puns come standard, why exactly? ). You are a joke sir. Bat.Shit.Crazy. Joke.

    • Snopes is for Dopes and is nothing more than a Bullshit site feeding internet trolls “liberal-scented pretties”.

    • wow you even got a little rhyme there! I guess rather than like, silly facts, you rely on truthiness. The pride you seem to take in your ignorance and the aggressiveness with which you defend it is impressive, Sir!

    • I consider myself politically liberal yet I know all beavers, dams, and water flows. And I do not live in a condo. Scapegoating and name calling will not fix anything.

    • But I think I read something about dams. The article said he was damming something. Would you dam a pond? It also said this has been going on for 10 years and that he was told and given probation. I don’t think he should be charged for collecting rain water but if he is damming something that feeds other sources of water, I can see the problem. Yes indeed we better get smart and take better care of the earth and get rid of greedy companies that cause us so much harm.

    • I’ll rephrase it especially for you: …this concept is foreign to bureaucrats who have never existed outside of their office, anyone who has never lived in a rural area, or has no concept of dams, physics and/or lacks common sense.

    • ‘ll rephrase it especially for you too: …this concept is foreign to bureaucrats who have never existed outside of their office, anyone who has never lived in a rural area, or has no concept of dams, physics and/or lacks common sense. Several engineering degrees trumps your snide remark. Liberal and fascist seem to be synonymous these days…

    • You aren’t from the Country are ya? what do you think keeps the water in a pond? That would be a dam. and the dam, has a culvert in it, which allows excess water to run out, so the pond won’t overfill and the damn burst. Ponds are built using ground that has a big ditch, & damming up the “back” side of the ditch.

        • And the “US Government”, even though this mostly about a city ordinance, apparently.

          Just some BS click bait.

        • I am utterly amazed that there are people in this country who are so blind that they still support Obama, no matter what evil he is up to. Are you ignorant or is the Kool Aid really that good? OK, he didn’t have anything to do with this situation, but how can you still support him?

    • gotta love the mental midgets at least he didn’t use the catch-all phrase Libtards so that’s a plus for him. Too bad he is already -5

    • Blackhawk, I can’t stand AKA (Obama) any more than you can, however, as conservatives, we’re also to blame. When we allow those with an R on their cap, to do just the same as the communist/socialists, we’re actually approving of the methods. Too often, if a politician with an R on their cap will pull these same agendas, we look the other way. We only scream when it’s a dem that’s doing the same and violating the Constitution. I’ll give you an example. Conservatives are screaming about common core and blaming AKA. However, if you do ed reform research, this common core really started with ed reform and was approved by Republicans. Common Core is the fruit of the ed reform that Republicans approved of. Bush is the one that brought us back into UNESCO which is a division under the UN that covers global education. As Republicans, we need to clean house first before we get anywhere and bring our country back and force government to once again operate under the chains that the Constitution binds government.

      • I fully agree with you . We have way to many sob sister rino republicans but even one of them is preferable to a demo-rat.

        • Blackhawk, You wrote: “even one of them is preferable to a demo-rat”
          I’ve spent a long time thinking about this and the whole ‘lessor of two evils’ thing. I really don’t agree, in fact, I think the phony Republicans are even more dangerous than the dems to our freedom. A known enemy doesn’t have the ability to get close enough to you to plant the knife in your back. Not only do these phony Republicans have the same agenda as the dems, but they’re able to get away with their unconstitutional stuff because Republicans keep their mouth shut, unlike, if a dem is doing the same. The only difference between the phony Republicans and the dems is the speed with which they want to drive us over the cliff. A dem doesn’t mind taking us over the cliff at 100 mph, whereas, a phony R will take us over at 75. Same train track, just a different colored cap on the conductor. Worse, the phony Rs divide the Republicans that will support even a cad, just because he/she wears the R on their cap, from the real conservatives. I’m convinced, by voting for the lessor of two evils, conservatives have committed a slow suicide. When you compromise core beliefs and standards, the only direction you’re going to go is downhill. As for me, I will never again vote for the lessor of two evils because it’s still a vote for evil. Sadly, it’s started to look like the two parties are just the same as two different colored wolf packs fighting over who gets to eat the prey. That’s us.

          • If you believe the Republicans are worse than Democrats, you haven’t studied history especially when it comes to violating the Constitution.

          • We already need a major third party to check and balance the other two. Libertarians are too radical. I’m against entitlements when there are good paying jobs that can provide a family a living. Create the jobs first, put people to work, then cut out as many entitlements as possible. It seems very few have any common sense these days.

            Back on the topic lol. Once a resivour is full, it will return the excess rainwater to the stream. There is always an overflow pipe to protect the dam. If his property is the only source of streams, the city has a serious water problem and they need another source of water. It just seems to me that someone with a little authority can’t resist abusing it to justify having a position that is unnecessary in the first place.

    • gotta love the mental midgets at least he didn’t use the catch-all phrase Libtards so that’s a plus for him. Too bad he is already -5

    • And the “US Government”, even though this mostly about a city ordinance, apparently.

      Just some BS click bait.

    • Blackhawk, I can’t stand AKA (Obama) any more than you can, however, as conservatives, we’re also to blame. When we allow those with an R on their cap, to do just the same as the communist/socialists, we’re actually approving of the methods. Too often, if a politician with an R on their cap will pull these same agendas, we look the other way. We only scream when it’s a dem that’s doing the same and violating the Constitution. I’ll give you an example. Conservatives are screaming about common core and blaming AKA. However, if you do ed reform research, this common core really started with ed reform and was approved by Republicans. Common Core is the fruit of the ed reform that Republicans approved of. Bush is the one that brought us back into UNESCO which is a division under the UN that covers global education. As Republicans, we need to clean house first before we get anywhere and bring our country back and force government to once again operate under the chains that the Constitution binds government.

    • I fully agree with you . We have way to many sob sister rino republicans but even one of them is preferable to a demo-rat.

    • Blackhawk, You wrote: “even one of them is preferable to a demo-rat”
      I’ve spent a long time thinking about this and the whole ‘lessor of two evils’ thing. I really don’t agree, in fact, I think the phony Republicans are even more dangerous than the dems to our freedom. A known enemy doesn’t have the ability to get close enough to you to plant the knife in your back. Not only do these phony Republicans have the same agenda as the dems, but they’re able to get away with their unconstitutional stuff because Republicans keep their mouth shut, unlike, if a dem is doing the same. The only difference between the phony Republicans and the dems is the speed with which they want to drive us over the cliff. A dem doesn’t mind taking us over the cliff at 100 mph, whereas, a phony R will take us over at 75. Same train track, just a different colored cap on the conductor. Worse, the phony Rs divide the Republicans that will support even a cad, just because he/she wears the R on their cap, from the real conservatives. I’m convinced, by voting for the lessor of two evils, conservatives have committed a slow suicide. When you compromise core beliefs and standards, the only direction you’re going to go is downhill. As for me, I will never again vote for the lessor of two evils because it’s still a vote for evil. Sadly, it’s started to look like the two parties are just the same as two different colored wolf packs fighting over who gets to eat the prey. That’s us.

    • If you believe the Republicans are worse than Democrats, you haven’t studied history especially when it comes to violating the Constitution.

    • We already need a major third party to check and balance the other two. Libertarians are too radical. I’m against entitlements when there are good paying jobs that can provide a family a living. Create the jobs first, put people to work, then cut out as many entitlements as possible. It seems very few have any common sense these days.

      Back on the topic lol. Once a resivour is full, it will return the excess rainwater to the stream. There is always an overflow pipe to protect the dam. If his property is the only source of streams, the city has a serious water problem and they need another source of water. It just seems to me that someone with a little authority can’t resist abusing it to justify having a position that is unnecessary in the first place.

    • I am utterly amazed that there are people in this country who are so blind that they still support Obama, no matter what evil he is up to. Are you ignorant or is the Kool Aid really that good? OK, he didn’t have anything to do with this situation, but how can you still support him?

  3. If the government owns the rainwater they should pay the landowners a fee for using their land for a transport system.

    • Ha! Just ask Native Americans about getting what’s owed them for their mineral rights…

          • Hypocrisissy makes a valid point and you tell him to fuck off? Hence, what is wrong w America.

          • Nothing to be proud of.. but, at least you admitted to being an idiot. Thats a rarity. Thank you.. quite refreshing.

          • Are you to be held accountable for the actions of your ancestors? I didn’t own slaves, I didn’t kill anyone to steal their lands and neither did any of my ancestors. They came here for opportunity and freedom, not to change America and get free stuff.

            Wake up and stand up for liberty and not the divisive rhetoric by the government controlled media. The system of governance created by the Founders and Framers was to serve the States and We the People, not be our masters and enslave us.

          • Of course not. I never owned slaves, either. I had a great-great-great uncle that owned quite a few slaves in the deep South (Alabama).. and he treated them very well. In fact, when he had to set them free, most did not want to leave.. but, he was obligated to make them go. He taught each head of household how to write their name (Curry) which he had given them. He taught them farming skills.. etc. He also set each of them up w a buckboard and a couple of animals to pull them.

          • you are whats wrong with the world… you think you are mericun and that gives you some sort of extra rights worldwide… Well billions disagree and i hope you see it in your short lifetime here….

          • You are actually what is wrong with the world, anyone that thinks like you is a detriment to any society.

          • Kevin, you weren’t there and I wasn’t there. However, obviously you have grown up with the victim mentality. I have traveled thru many Indian communities, sang at the Miss Indian American pageant in Glasgow, MT, have talked and shared stories with many native Americans! AND, I have seen some that are great people and have made something of themselves! AND, I have seen the ones that, like many blacks, want to sit back and bitch and moan about something that happened to their ancestors instead of making something of themselves! I have seen Indians who have got Masters degrees on the ‘White Man’s money!’ AND they end up drunks in a shack! So, get out of the bar, make something of yourself, and knock off the victim mentality!!!

          • gone through your posts, looks like you are a racist hater … You have far more hater posts than good honest truths… your little picture changes nothing… you will always be a hater….

        • how about yes and take your sorry ass back to Europe where you people come from… Everything was fine here for thousands of years before you “discovered” north and south america… you fucking bigot

          • Where do you think Native Americans origionally came from? BTW….Easy to tell you are a lib….first thing people like you do…Is call those that disagree with you, names…

          • The word NATIVE should give you a hint as to where they came from, son.

          • They are not Native to America. They came from Asia. Get some history.

          • but migrated up from Africa before that, started with Adam and Steve..uh, EVE! sry 😉

          • What matter is it that I am a liberal… I am Native American and have my whole life watched as white folk trample on the rights of Native Americans…… I see whole families living in thin tin housing.. That’s the legacy of white people who have gotten too big for their britches… You white folk have taken native americans made them walk across the country into unfamiliar arid land and say here you are this is what we give you survive on it or die… So yes I am more than a little pissed of at bigots like you saying i am European if I look back far enough… Take your stuff and GTFO the party is over and long overdue…..

          • White folks did the same to white folks, indians did the same thing to indians, blacks did the same thing to black folks, get over it yer not special.

          • nobody has ever commited genocide like what has happened in the Americas… 100 000 000 Native Americans were slaughtered by Europeans… tell me again how white people did that to white people…

          • Lol, “son?” I s’pose the millions of Jews, or the ethnic cleansing in Russia, or nearly wipin out the Irish don’t count? No, YOU need to learn yer history, “son!”

          • Well aren’t YOU all clever and folksy! “best go back” “s’pose” “yer” “wipin” Oh, and did I call you “son”? -Damned autocorrect! I meant: “Ignorant cunt”

          • lol, glad you got that fixed 🙂 this conversation gut ugly and way off topic….moving on

          • Really? You can’t disagree without being a jerk? Maybe you should take some anger management classes.

          • 100 million is misleading though when berating us ‘muricans, as that is the generous Estimate of natives in alll of North AND South America. High end estimates by researchers/historians put north america alone at 18 million but possibly as low as 3 million. So yah, Hitler is still worse than us. Your people lost and the whiteys are the ones that took it. Tough luck, and when china comes and does it to us, you and yours aren’t going to get any special treatment, you’ll be working the mines with the rest of us.

          • You’re a fuckin crybaby pussy. It’s a no wonder why your ancestors got stomped out.

          • Kevin, what you are dealing with here, are a bunch of asswipe little trolls who get their rocks off baiting people. They sit behind a keyboard diddling themselves, and have to wipe their keyboards clean of their drool (and other bodily fluids) every so often so they can continue to act all tough in their anonymity. Don’t feed them, and don’t try to educate them. May I suggest blocking them?

          • I am getting your point… It’s just so sad that people believe you can kick people off their land, promise to help them, don’t follow the treaties. People like these just make me sad… can you add me as a friend?

          • https://www.quora.com/European-Colonization-How-many-of-the-native-american-people-died-in-the-creation-of-the-New-World-process-untill-18-century
            have a read… remember smallpox was given to native americans on blankets and other trade goods… the blankets were given with the infection
            these were given on purpose to cull the native Americans who by far out-numbered white people… and cull they did… all the way down to less than a million… Don’t tell me that I am full of shit…. do your own research… this is a good place to start

          • yes because 6 million Jews is by far much more people than 100 million natives

          • I am sorry that my information was not entirely true… That truly is a number beyond comprehension… I do maintain my statements are correct and that White people had slaughtered many many millions during those places in time… I can also see there was a population trying to remove native americans that still continues also

          • And red people used to cut scalps off human beings for trophies, so maybe they needed killing. Maybe the modern world didnt have room for that bullshit.

          • there were never, ever 100 million people in all the Americas period. At best, there may have been ten million. You just pull numbers out of your ass.

          • So you would be ok if there was a native american uprising and made white people to walk across the country and make them settle on useless land and left you to try to making a life for yourself… please don’t pretend that killing 100 million native americans with blankets riddled with smallpox causing very large death from a disease willfully used to infect all the native americans… don’t brush it off… that’s more than the number of people killed in world war I and world II combined… So yeah that’s genocide and it was your ancestors that did this crime against humanity… don’t you dare pretend that this was OK one white man gets killed and an entire village is destroyed… know your history you stupid ass punk

          • again not that killing and stealing land from others is right, but if your people find a way to overtake america you will do it…just like we know America is alway at risk of some other country taking us over…that is why we have a military…your bitter because your people lost the war…i would as well if it happens to us

          • I have indian blood. If all races that were here before 1491
            were to vanish they would all die. It would never be the same.
            Too much knowledge has died.
            Yes I have indian blood but I am a VERY PROUD white man.

          • I am a proud patriot American, my skin color has nothing to do with it,I am half Native Indian and half Irish..but I am an American first..

          • first let’s see some proof of there being 100 million ‘natives’ in the country in those times

          • Highly unlikely. Besides the greatest genocide in human history was the Islamic conquests in which historians estimate 270 MILLION were slaughtered- and it continues today.

          • he population figure for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus
            has proven difficult to establish. Scholars rely on archaeological data
            and written records from settlers from the Old World. Most scholars
            writing at the end of the 19th century estimated the pre-Columbian
            population as low as 10 million; by the end of the 20th century most
            scholars gravitate to a middle estimate of around 50 million, with some
            historians arguing for 100 million or more.[1] Contact with the New World led to the European colonization of the Americas, in which millions of immigrants from the Old World eventually settled in the New World.

          • There were at least that many when the Conquistadors arrived. You need to learn how to read if you haven’t heard this bit of History. When the Brits encountered resistance from Native Americans, they murdered them using germ warfare and as a result we had a mere fraction left by the time the United States was formed.

          • That was 100 years ago. How long are you going to hang onto it? No one who was involved in all of this are still alive so who would you like to take to task. AND, I’m more than sure you weren’t there either.

          • It’s called “right of conquest” so yes, if you native americans (I was born here too, idiot) can get enough of you together, and can kill us all or force us to move, I’m good with that. I wish you luck. But I’m good with it.

            Oh, and you really REALLY need to not be telling people to “know your history” when yours is so badly skewed.

          • Seriously? You still believe the smallpox blanket hoax? Think about it, there was no vaccine for smallpox, so if soldiers were handing out smallpox infested blankets, they would have contracted smallpox, as well. If you think you’re the only one that has had bad things happen in his family’s history, you’re not too bright. Most of us just move forward, rather than wallow in the past. Time to put on some big boy pants and make your life count for something, in spite of what may have happened to your ancestors.

          • You believe it because you’ve been conditioned to believe it, and you want to believe it, not because it can be supported by facts. Again, how is it the soldiers handing out small pox blankets did not contract small pox themselves? Do you think they had them sealed in plastic bags? Suspend your belief system for a few minutes, and think how the soldiers could prevent contracting the disease themselves. If you are intellectually honest with yourself, you’ll realize it couldn’t have occurred as you’ve been taught. BTW, quit telling everyone you disagree with to ‘get an education’. You don’t have any knowledge of the education levels of anyone commenting here, and your need to insult those you disagree with is generally an indication that deep down, you know you’re wrong.

          • HA ha ha ha “hoax” You’re addressing a Native American and putting forth a BS lie just because you think s/he is stupid, well I’m not stupid, and I’m calling your BS, and here is a lesson for you: not everyone died from smallpox, those that lived were immune, and many people were immune because they milked cows. So don’t put forth such stupid lies.

          • it is not a hoax… It has been noted everywhere… just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it a hoax… google smallpox blankets… the reason white people never died from it was because they were basically immune… Native Americans had not seen it before and it almost always resulted in death… do your research and try not to look stupid as you pull your words out of your ass….

          • So I’m stupid because I disagree with you? Well, lucky you for being the smartest person in the room. BTW, just so you know, I’m Native American.

          • Whites immune to smallpox? Really? I suggest you contact an epidemiologist before you use that as a reason. Never go into battle without the proper ammunition for the weapon. Do your research. . That said… sad as it is to you….whites are there to stay. Personally speaking.. I left. And its not all bad….. we did bring the wheel and the horse Never understood how you got the concept of the circle but not the wheel. Unless its just part of the culture to make your women drag stuff around.

          • 100 million, lol. The number gets bigger every time I hear it. The Europeans came and started settling. They traded and bartered with Indians. Some Indians were violent and murdered quite a few of them. As the Europeans multiplied they actually paid the Indians for land that the Indians claimed to be their territory. Disputes arose, agreements were broken and wrongs were done on both sides. In the end the Europeans brought bigger guns and began implementing their will more and more. There we have the history of early American development. There we have a similar history to the ways of the whole world. Were wrongs done? Of course. They certainly were not done to you and no one in this country is holding back Native Americans from prosperity and success.
            The only ones still suffering from this are those who are deceived by Satan to carry around a root of bitterness and an entitlement mentality.

          • Yep, Kev, you’re a liberal. We can tell because you are unfamiliar with population demographics and with simple math. Most of the people now living in the U.S. have Zero to do with the disposition of the preceding immigrants from Asia, now called ‘native Americans’. Therefore, trying to extract apologies is not useful, and is inappropriate. I recommend that if you wish to practice bigotry, and say “you white people” to unfamiliar people of undetermined racial background, then you should ditch the white boy name.

          • Kevin – I’m Blackfeet and I just want you to know the fact. The fact is t wasn’t Americans who introduced the ill fated blankets it was Europeans as it was done long before there was an America. Just so you know friend.

          • I agree with that… the country did become America though and with the naming of a new country native americans were still persecuted then and it continues today…

          • Was 5 million until Soros put his money into leftist revisionism. Not 100 million dummy.

          • This is what is referred to as natural selection. The weak being conquered by the strong. The people of Europe and Asia have endured this for countless centuries. I don’t know what makes you think you’re any different. People are people, just some more technologically advanced than others. Technology and the willingness to use it to make one’s self stronger is what causes the rise and fall of empires. Bitching about it doesn’t help.

          • no we aren’t special we are just the results of American greed… read up on it then get back to me with your argument telling me this wasn’t the worse case of genocide in human history… don’t tell me I need to get over it… our rivers on our lands are full of radiation and this has been going on for 50 years… No one minds that uranium mining has spoiled the waterways… And you tell me to get over it? you are a special kind of stupid. Ignorance can be fixed with education but stupid is forever

          • you could not defend your country…white man developed guns and overpowered Natives, disease of Europeans took there toll on your people since new disease were introduced that your people could not overcome …other countries also lost therir war and land when some country invented way to get an advantage in war

          • I never said it was right but this is what losing your war with another country or religion has meant throughout all of time…this is why all countries have a military…to try to protect what is theirs….Natives have stolen land from other natives… I have never agreed war is morally right, just that this is how humans have behaved, so if you have some thing others want, you must defend forever

          • Dumbass, nobody alive today had anything to do with any of the events you are complaining about. Most modern Americans don’t even know they happened.

            You DO need to get over it. Its in the past, it cant be changed, and nobody alive today had diddley squat to do with it.

          • So native Americans didn’t wage war against each other? They didn’t kill other native Americans? Wow, just wow.

          • Don’t put words in my mouth I said nothing like that… there is bad blood in all civilizations and always will be….

          • it seems that it’s so easy for people to tell you to “get over it” when they don’t have to live with the continuing consequences (the radiation , the poor housing and healthcare etc that are direct results of being shunted unto “reservations” and treated as less than human ) i must say that i don’t like the name calling and insults – from you and those responding to you ;we really need to be more civil with each other – but i understand your anger and america as a nation needs to acknowledge the injustice done to your people and try to do more to make up for it …peace

          • Time to read the Iroquois Constitution. Ben Franklin borrowed several items from it while the major documents of the USofA were being formulated. Originally, 5 separate Tribes adopted the Iroquois Constitution. Eventually, a sixth Tribe entered into the agreement. The Iroquois Confederacy was created as a form of protection against larger, stronger Tribes which raided the smaller Tribes and took what they wanted.

          • and get out of africa taking our natural resources their bitch!! everywhere you go you destroy!!

          • is this any different that any country in the past that lost their war and were overtaken by another country… your people could not defend your country and were over taken …wars suck

          • Kevin I am not Native American but I am a White American. I do agree with what you say accept for blaming your troubles on the white man. Yes it was the white man in charge but they were white politicians. The Native American were / are the worst treated American’s, period. Don’t blame it all on the white folks. Your problem is in Washington DC. But you just watch,,,,, what DC did to your people they are now doing it to their own. And most of the White people don’t even see it.

          • That is more your people’s doing than mine. I have gone on reservation lands to estimate the costs to rehabilitate housing…nice housing at that, where the copper wire, copper water pipes, etc. were ripped out by the tribal members and sold for scrap.

          • That was the price your people paid for believing the Fed would take care of you and them. Many whites are now learning the lesson taught to the Indian decades ago. The government will take what it wants and give you the discards and the trash, and then make you pay for it.

          • My ancestors on my father’s side date back to the nearly the start of America for white people. They risked their lives doing so back then as did many people from many other countries. They were escaping persecution, poverty, etc.

            If there are people who I feel have been given a raw deal, the American Indians have always on the top of my list. Our government during those times did everything it could to oblite

          • actually great british close to scottland It doesn’t matter where my name comes from what has it to do with this forum

          • In fact Kevin Holmes is a very Irish name. So make sure you don’t discount all YOUR ancestors

          • You call others ‘bigot’ and then say you white people over and over again. Do you know the meaning of bigot? It does not mean, ‘person I disagree with’. You act like the bigot.

          • you know i’ve read through this entire thread and it’s gone from a state trying to own the rain to another, name calling everything. people bitter because of this or that. sounds pretty much like the blacks today because no one cares and the white people keep shooting them…wah, wah, wah. where’s the news of black on white, more the black on black? no where. all this crap about who was here first and who did what to who is like the slavery crap and all the confederate monuments need to come down, so and so owned slaves, wah, wah, wah. yes i say build a bridge, get over ir and go on with your life today, all of the slave issues, the native american vs europeans issues, they are all hundreds of years in the past. i’m from America, that’s me. plain old American. i might even be a mutt, indian, irish, french, english, german. i don’t hyphenate…take to long to say. if you’re not 1st generation born don’t hyphenate, you’re AMERICAN. and how did it get to race and all this other bullshit from a state trying to own rain water…that right there is the stupid issue people should be complaining about. get back to the issue at hand everyone….no wonder our country is all fucked up..we can’t stay on one topic to discuss it.

          • You know you are right that this is way off topic…. You wan’t to build bridges… Why is it the native americans responsibility to build these bridges… why don’t you start that it’s a good idea

          • Racist bigots like you Kevin Holmes, have no place in modern society. The bottom line is that if Europeans had not settled the continental United States, Russia, China or Arabs or some other “foreign” country would have. The Native Americans act like the petulant child and certainly cannot understand that this country is better off now. If you don’t agree with that, then by all means, go fuck yourself.

          • go tell that to the Native Americans that have to drink radioactive water for the last 50 years… Or is your compassion filter clogged up?

          • if you drank radioactive water for 50 years you’d all be bald and cancer-ridden. get the fuck over your ridiculous lies and exaggerations.

          • We take our technology and see how you survive. When you all die like flies we will come back. Enjoy the quiet.

      • lets ask the real Indians about land and their identity and why the mongoloids descendants and whites trying to be the the real Americans

    • Additionally if the gov owns the water and the rain floods and damages your property I assume you can sue the gov for allowing their property to damages yours’

      • I just said the same thing to my son! Exactly right. Kind of like your sidewalk in front of your house. You have to clear it because the city owns it, but if someone falls and hurts themselves on it, suddenly YOU own it!!

    • Yeah, and when it floods your property and home, the State should be liable for cleaning up and repairs! A few lawsuits for that aught to put a stop to those laws! I just shake my head at all the shenanigans that the People’s Republic of Oregon pull!

    • Yes, send his ass to jail- Hoarding water starves the tributaries which starves the river, which starves the animals and people – millions who depend on these rivers –
      Use some common sense.
      Collecting water in places like Hawaii for home use is totally legal because they lack fresh water.
      But this guy is a threat to the ecosystem- especially with copycats taking more water.

      • Send your ass to jail for being a fuckwit.. if the water falls on his land, it should be his.. no one is getting starved by four fucking barrels of water, moron….

        • No John the guy hoarded 13 Million gallons of water. This is not a barrel collection, this is a large reservoir, which he had no permits for.
          John, I travel all over America and it’s not okay to call people morons and “Fukwits” and nothing pisses me off more than cyber bullies…
          If you would like to meet in a Mixed Marital Arts Cage and fight like a real man,
          please by all means just post the state and nearest city you live. When I’m in the area I will post some possible sanctioned fight locations here and gladly put up my half of the money for a ring & referee and await your response. But in the meantime – read the real story and educate yourself – http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

          • Hey IDIOT….it’s called PONDS and LAKES…and guess what? Once filled….excess runs OUT….

          • “No” you don’t just “make a pond or lake” – you are inviting
            mosquitoes to breed, you can contaminate ground water with seepage if
            not properly lined, a breach can create a deadly flash flood, any
            Southern to Gulf property would invite alligators and snakes, close to
            population it becomes a drowning risk, and any pond will disrupt the
            natural ecosystem of any given area….
            And! ponds need to be fed more
            water – you have increased the surface area to air and land increasing
            evaporation and absorption- the river will “always” have less water after that. You are STEALING from the source. Anyone
            down hill is getting less water.
            Anyone with a brain is saying “duh”, and is very glad you’re not their neighbor please move to Mexico before the wall is built.

          • You better go find yer “safe room.” Ponds don’t cause flash floods, skeeters can be controlled,ground water is just that, ground water, evaporation? LOL, I’m gonna just guess, a city boy?

          • Daveloy: First read the real story: http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater
            This is not a pond – it is a man made reservoir at elevation.
            There are countless deaths and towns that have been destroyed by man-made reservoirs.
            See this link http://www.exponent.com/reservoir_levee_breach_modeling/
            This guy is not an engineer, he has no understanding of the soil tolerance for saturation.
            Saturation is when the dirt turns to quicksand, at this point it will give at the weakest point and 13 million gallons of water is coming down the mountain.
            He also has no release system for overfill from major rain storms which can breach and wash out dams.
            This is just dumb beyond dumb. With no regard for the safety of others or the ecosystems he’s destroying.
            Glad he is is jail and I hope the land is returned to it’s original beauty.
            Not that it matters but I am very much from the country, my graduating class barely cleared 100. Still I mustered up the brains to graduate with honors from college.
            Also, this guy had the freedom to get proper permits and build a safe reservoir, but he chose to ignore common sense. And because of selfish people like him, we need laws to protect the “freedom and livelihood” of everyone who is unfortunate enough to live anywhere near this guy.

          • Wrong, we don’t need more laws tellin us what to do on our own property, you’ve lost sight of what a free country should be.

          • Again what is the difference between a natural pond and an unnarural pond? How does contamination not seep from a natural pond? The liner that naturally is in it?

          • So it is OK for the government to build hundreds of thousands of lakes and ponds, but not for us ‘stupid folks’ to do it???

          • The government should have no say in what water falls onto private property… want to save water? Go tell Nestle and other corporations to get their fat hands off of the Millions and millions of gallons of water then sell back to us with a profit of 2000% what they paid to get it….

          • Really?? That’s the response of your tiny little cro-magnon mind, to seek me out and try to lay down a beating because I said a few words?? How does it feel to be so weak-minded that you want to fight because of stupid shit like that?? You ARE a moron, and a fuckwit to boot… But sure.. come on down.. come to my house and try your neanderthal threats… You’ll end up on a slab if you try to assault me….

          • John- legally, you have already verbally assaulted me… and your post is a clearly violation of the use of this site.
            I have no interest in assaulting you, I am letting the world know that you’re a gutless punk by challenging you to a legally sanctioned competition but your butt is glued to a chair so it’s best you stay put.
            And “No” you don’t just “make a pond or lake” – you are inviting mosquitoes to breed, you can contaminate ground water with seepage if not properly lined, a breach can create a deadly flash flood, any Southern to Gulf property would invite alligators and snakes, close to population it becomes a drowning risk, and any pond will disrupt the natural ecosystem of any given area….
            And ponds need to be fed more water – you have increased the surface area to air and land increasing evaporation and absorption. You are STEALING from the source. Anyone down hill is getting less water.

          • Incorrect, asshole.. you are the first one threatening violence… I simply responded to your threat in letting you know I would defend myself…. so yeah, go fuck yourself, .. piece of shits like you amuse me

          • Verbal assault is assault. It is also defamation of character and since you’re too gutless to stand up in legal competition, I’ll go the other route. You’ve accumulated quite an online history “John”, and I was more than happy to forward that history to Federal authorities who took a surprised interest in the information. Have a nice day !

          • Your attempt at legal knowledge would be humorous if you were not so blatantly wrong.

          • yeah because the feds have nothing better to do than get involved in your internet flame war. do you realize what an idiot you sound like?

          • Oh grow up! Stick sand stones may break your bones but names will never hurt you…. an auld Scottish saying…lol

          • I think you mean Mixed Martial Arts Cage – Marital pertains to marriage unless you are referring to husband and wife fighting

          • Mixed Marital Arts Cage??? Maybe you should learn to spell so someone takes you seriously! And he had permits, but the government SOBs decided to revoke them…probably for some of their friends!

  4. If the government owns the rainwater they should pay the landowners a fee for using their land for a transport system.

    • Ha! Just ask Native Americans about getting what’s owed them for their mineral rights…

    • Additionally if the gov owns the water and the rain floods and damages your property I assume you can sue the gov for allowing their property to damages yours’

    • Yeah, and when it floods your property and home, the State should be liable for cleaning up and repairs! A few lawsuits for that aught to put a stop to those laws! I just shake my head at all the shenanigans that the People’s Republic of Oregon pull!

    • Nothing to be proud of.. but, at least you admitted to being an idiot. Thats a rarity. Thank you.. quite refreshing.

    • Yes, send his ass to jail- Hoarding water starves the tributaries which starves the river, which starves the animals and people – millions who depend on these rivers –
      Use some common sense.
      Collecting water in places like Hawaii for home use is totally legal because they lack fresh water.
      But this guy is a threat to the ecosystem- especially with copycats taking more water.

    • Send your ass to jail for being a fuckwit.. if the water falls on his land, it should be his.. no one is getting starved by four fucking barrels of water, moron….

    • how about yes and take your sorry ass back to Europe where you people come from… Everything was fine here for thousands of years before you “discovered” north and south america… you fucking bigot

    • you are whats wrong with the world… you think you are mericun and that gives you some sort of extra rights worldwide… Well billions disagree and i hope you see it in your short lifetime here….

    • No John the guy hoarded 13 Million gallons of water. This is not a barrel collection, this is a large reservoir, which he had no permits for.
      John, I travel all over America and it’s not okay to call people morons and “Fukwits” and nothing pisses me off more than cyber bullies…
      If you would like to meet in a Mixed Marital Arts Cage and fight like a real man,
      please by all means just post the state and nearest city you live. When I’m in the area I will post some possible sanctioned fight locations here and gladly put up my half of the money for a ring & referee and await your response. But in the meantime – read the real story and educate yourself – http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

    • Where do you think Native Americans origionally came from? BTW….Easy to tell you are a lib….first thing people like you do…Is call those that disagree with you, names…

    • Hey IDIOT….it’s called PONDS and LAKES…and guess what? Once filled….excess runs OUT….

    • Really?? That’s the response of your tiny little cro-magnon mind, to seek me out and try to lay down a beating because I said a few words?? How does it feel to be so weak-minded that you want to fight because of stupid shit like that?? You ARE a moron, and a fuckwit to boot… But sure.. come on down.. come to my house and try your neanderthal threats… You’ll end up on a slab if you try to assault me….

    • John- legally, you have already verbally assaulted me… and your post is a clearly violation of the use of this site.
      I have no interest in assaulting you, I am letting the world know that you’re a gutless punk by challenging you to a legally sanctioned competition but your butt is glued to a chair so it’s best you stay put.
      And “No” you don’t just “make a pond or lake” – you are inviting mosquitoes to breed, you can contaminate ground water with seepage if not properly lined, a breach can create a deadly flash flood, any Southern to Gulf property would invite alligators and snakes, close to population it becomes a drowning risk, and any pond will disrupt the natural ecosystem of any given area….
      And ponds need to be fed more water – you have increased the surface area to air and land increasing evaporation and absorption. You are STEALING from the source. Anyone down hill is getting less water.

    • “No” you don’t just “make a pond or lake” – you are inviting
      mosquitoes to breed, you can contaminate ground water with seepage if
      not properly lined, a breach can create a deadly flash flood, any
      Southern to Gulf property would invite alligators and snakes, close to
      population it becomes a drowning risk, and any pond will disrupt the
      natural ecosystem of any given area….
      And! ponds need to be fed more
      water – you have increased the surface area to air and land increasing
      evaporation and absorption- the river will “always” have less water after that. You are STEALING from the source. Anyone
      down hill is getting less water.
      Anyone with a brain is saying “duh”, and is very glad you’re not their neighbor please move to Mexico before the wall is built.

    • Incorrect, asshole.. you are the first one threatening violence… I simply responded to your threat in letting you know I would defend myself…. so yeah, go fuck yourself, .. piece of shits like you amuse me

    • Verbal assault is assault. It is also defamation of character and since you’re too gutless to stand up in legal competition, I’ll go the other route. You’ve accumulated quite an online history “John”, and I was more than happy to forward that history to Federal authorities who took a surprised interest in the information. Have a nice day !

    • What matter is it that I am a liberal… I am Native American and have my whole life watched as white folk trample on the rights of Native Americans…… I see whole families living in thin tin housing.. That’s the legacy of white people who have gotten too big for their britches… You white folk have taken native americans made them walk across the country into unfamiliar arid land and say here you are this is what we give you survive on it or die… So yes I am more than a little pissed of at bigots like you saying i am European if I look back far enough… Take your stuff and GTFO the party is over and long overdue…..

    • The government should have no say in what water falls onto private property… want to save water? Go tell Nestle and other corporations to get their fat hands off of the Millions and millions of gallons of water then sell back to us with a profit of 2000% what they paid to get it….

    • White folks did the same to white folks, indians did the same thing to indians, blacks did the same thing to black folks, get over it yer not special.

    • You better go find yer “safe room.” Ponds don’t cause flash floods, skeeters can be controlled,ground water is just that, ground water, evaporation? LOL, I’m gonna just guess, a city boy?

    • Daveloy: First read the real story: http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater
      This is not a pond – it is a man made reservoir at elevation.
      There are countless deaths and towns that have been destroyed by man-made reservoirs.
      See this link http://www.exponent.com/reservoir_levee_breach_modeling/
      This guy is not an engineer, he has no understanding of the soil tolerance for saturation.
      Saturation is when the dirt turns to quicksand, at this point it will give at the weakest point and 13 million gallons of water is coming down the mountain.
      He also has no release system for overfill from major rain storms which can breach and wash out dams.
      This is just dumb beyond dumb. With no regard for the safety of others or the ecosystems he’s destroying.
      Glad he is is jail and I hope the land is returned to it’s original beauty.
      Not that it matters but I am very much from the country, my graduating class barely cleared 100. Still I mustered up the brains to graduate with honors from college.
      Also, this guy had the freedom to get proper permits and build a safe reservoir, but he chose to ignore common sense. And because of selfish people like him, we need laws to protect the “freedom and livelihood” of everyone who is unfortunate enough to live anywhere near this guy.

    • Wrong, we don’t need more laws tellin us what to do on our own property, you’ve lost sight of what a free country should be.

    • nobody has ever commited genocide like what has happened in the Americas… 100 000 000 Native Americans were slaughtered by Europeans… tell me again how white people did that to white people…

    • lets ask the real Indians about land and their identity and why the mongoloids descendants and whites trying to be the the real Americans

    • Lol, “son?” I s’pose the millions of Jews, or the ethnic cleansing in Russia, or nearly wipin out the Irish don’t count? No, YOU need to learn yer history, “son!”

    • Well aren’t YOU all clever and folksy! “best go back” “s’pose” “yer” “wipin” Oh, and did I call you “son”? -Damned autocorrect! I meant: “Ignorant cunt”

    • So you would be ok if there was a native american uprising and made white people to walk across the country and make them settle on useless land and left you to try to making a life for yourself… please don’t pretend that killing 100 million native americans with blankets riddled with smallpox causing very large death from a disease willfully used to infect all the native americans… don’t brush it off… that’s more than the number of people killed in world war I and world II combined… So yeah that’s genocide and it was your ancestors that did this crime against humanity… don’t you dare pretend that this was OK one white man gets killed and an entire village is destroyed… know your history you stupid ass punk

    • no we aren’t special we are just the results of American greed… read up on it then get back to me with your argument telling me this wasn’t the worse case of genocide in human history… don’t tell me I need to get over it… our rivers on our lands are full of radiation and this has been going on for 50 years… No one minds that uranium mining has spoiled the waterways… And you tell me to get over it? you are a special kind of stupid. Ignorance can be fixed with education but stupid is forever

    • You call others ‘bigot’ and then say you white people over and over again. Do you know the meaning of bigot? It does not mean, ‘person I disagree with’. You act like the bigot.

    • is this any different than any country in the past that lost their war and were overtaken by another country… your people could not defend your country and were over taken …wars sucks… Indians have done it to other Indians…Natives are not innocent of not stealing land from other Indians, you only own what you can defend and protect…I am not say it it morally right but that is how the entire world works…people have always had to defend and protect what they own or risk it being taken by somebody else

    • you could not defend your country…white man developed guns and overpowered Natives, disease of Europeans took there toll on your people since new disease were introduced that your people could not overcome …other countries also lost their war and land when some country invented way to get an advantage in war…their countries were stolen from them… they are sure to be bitter as well but this is how humans have lived since time began

    • again not that killing and stealing land from others is right, but if your people find a way to overtake america you will do it…just like we know America is alway at risk of some other country taking us over…that is why we have a military…your bitter because your people lost the war…i would as well if it happens to us

    • Again what is the difference between a natural pond and an unnarural pond? How does contamination not seep from a natural pond? The liner that naturally is in it?

    • Time to read the Iroquois Constitution. Ben Franklin borrowed several items from it while the major documents of the USofA were being formulated. Originally, 5 separate Tribes adopted the Iroquois Constitution. Eventually, a sixth Tribe entered into the agreement. The Iroquois Confederacy was created as a form of protection against larger, stronger Tribes which raided the smaller Tribes and took what they wanted.

    • Are you to be held accountable for the actions of your ancestors? I didn’t own slaves, I didn’t kill anyone to steal their lands and neither did any of my ancestors. They came here for opportunity and freedom, not to change America and get free stuff.

      Wake up and stand up for liberty and not the divisive rhetoric by the government controlled media. The system of governance created by the Founders and Framers was to serve the States and We the People, not be our masters and enslave us.

    • Of course not. I never owned slaves, either. I had a great-great-great uncle that owned quite a few slaves in the deep South (Alabama).. and he treated them very well. In fact, when he had to set them free, most did not want to leave.. but, he was obligated to make them go. He taught each head of household how to write their name (Curry) which he had given them. He taught them farming skills.. etc. He also set each of them up w a buckboard and a couple of animals to pull them.

    • yeah because the feds have nothing better to do than get involved in your internet flame war. do you realize what an idiot you sound like?

    • Kevin I am not Native American but I am a White American. I do agree with what you say accept for blaming your troubles on the white man. Yes it was the white man in charge but they were white politicians. The Native American were / are the worst treated American’s, period. Don’t blame it all on the white folks. Your problem is in Washington DC. But you just watch,,,,, what DC did to your people they are now doing it to their own. And most of the White people don’t even see it.

    • Oh grow up! Stick sand stones may break your bones but names will never hurt you…. an auld Scottish saying…lol

    • That is more your people’s doing than mine. I have gone on reservation lands to estimate the costs to rehabilitate housing…nice housing at that, where the copper wire, copper water pipes, etc. were ripped out by the tribal members and sold for scrap.

    • first let’s see some proof of there being 100 million ‘natives’ in the country in those times

    • I think you mean Mixed Martial Arts Cage – Marital pertains to marriage unless you are referring to husband and wife fighting

    • https://www.quora.com/European-Colonization-How-many-of-the-native-american-people-died-in-the-creation-of-the-New-World-process-untill-18-century
      have a read… remember smallpox was given to native americans on blankets and other trade goods… the blankets were given with the infection
      these were given on purpose to cull the native Americans who by far out-numbered white people… and cull they did… all the way down to less than a million… Don’t tell me that I am full of shit…. do your own research… this is a good place to start

    • 100 million is misleading though when berating us ‘muricans, as that is the generous Estimate of natives in alll of North AND South America. High end estimates by researchers/historians put north america alone at 18 million but possibly as low as 3 million. So yah, Hitler is still worse than us. Your people lost and the whiteys are the ones that took it. Tough luck, and when china comes and does it to us, you and yours aren’t going to get any special treatment, you’ll be working the mines with the rest of us.

    • Kevin, what you are dealing with here, are a bunch of asswipe little trolls who get their rocks off baiting people. They sit behind a keyboard diddling themselves, and have to wipe their keyboards clean of their drool (and other bodily fluids) every so often so they can continue to act all tough in their anonymity. Don’t feed them, and don’t try to educate them. May I suggest blocking them?

    • you know i’ve read through this entire thread and it’s gone from a state trying to own the rain to another, name calling everything. people bitter because of this or that. sounds pretty much like the blacks today because no one cares and the white people keep shooting them…wah, wah, wah. where’s the news of black on white, more the black on black? no where. all this crap about who was here first and who did what to who is like the slavery crap and all the confederate monuments need to come down, so and so owned slaves, wah, wah, wah. yes i say build a bridge, get over ir and go on with your life today, all of the slave issues, the native american vs europeans issues, they are all hundreds of years in the past. i’m from America, that’s me. plain old American. i might even be a mutt, indian, irish, french, english, german. i don’t hyphenate…take to long to say. if you’re not 1st generation born don’t hyphenate, you’re AMERICAN. and how did it get to race and all this other bullshit from a state trying to own rain water…that right there is the stupid issue people should be complaining about. get back to the issue at hand everyone….no wonder our country is all fucked up..we can’t stay on one topic to discuss it.

    • You know you are right that this is way off topic…. You wan’t to build bridges… Why is it the native americans responsibility to build these bridges… why don’t you start that it’s a good idea

    • That was 100 years ago. How long are you going to hang onto it? No one who was involved in all of this are still alive so who would you like to take to task. AND, I’m more than sure you weren’t there either.

    • Racist bigots like you Kevin Holmes, have no place in modern society. The bottom line is that if Europeans had not settled the continental United States, Russia, China or Arabs or some other “foreign” country would have. The Native Americans act like the petulant child and certainly cannot understand that this country is better off now. If you don’t agree with that, then by all means, go fuck yourself.

    • Highly unlikely. Besides the greatest genocide in human history was the Islamic conquests in which historians estimate 270 MILLION were slaughtered- and it continues today.

    • he population figure for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus
      has proven difficult to establish. Scholars rely on archaeological data
      and written records from settlers from the Old World. Most scholars
      writing at the end of the 19th century estimated the pre-Columbian
      population as low as 10 million; by the end of the 20th century most
      scholars gravitate to a middle estimate of around 50 million, with some
      historians arguing for 100 million or more.[1] Contact with the New World led to the European colonization of the Americas, in which millions of immigrants from the Old World eventually settled in the New World.

    • I never said it was right but this is what losing your war with another country or religion has meant throughout all of time…this is why all countries have a military…to try to protect what is theirs….Natives have stolen land from other natives… I have never agreed war is morally right, just that this is how humans have behaved, so if you have some thing others want, you must defend forever

    • You are actually what is wrong with the world, anyone that thinks like you is a detriment to any society.

    • I am sorry that my information was not entirely true… That truly is a number beyond comprehension… I do maintain my statements are correct and that White people had slaughtered many many millions during those places in time… I can also see there was a population trying to remove native americans that still continues also

    • Kevin, you weren’t there and I wasn’t there. However, obviously you have grown up with the victim mentality. I have traveled thru many Indian communities, sang at the Miss Indian American pageant in Glasgow, MT, have talked and shared stories with many native Americans! AND, I have seen some that are great people and have made something of themselves! AND, I have seen the ones that, like many blacks, want to sit back and bitch and moan about something that happened to their ancestors instead of making something of themselves! I have seen Indians who have got Masters degrees on the ‘White Man’s money!’ AND they end up drunks in a shack! So, get out of the bar, make something of yourself, and knock off the victim mentality!!!

    • I just said the same thing to my son! Exactly right. Kind of like your sidewalk in front of your house. You have to clear it because the city owns it, but if someone falls and hurts themselves on it, suddenly YOU own it!!

    • Mixed Marital Arts Cage??? Maybe you should learn to spell so someone takes you seriously! And he had permits, but the government SOBs decided to revoke them…probably for some of their friends!

    • So it is OK for the government to build hundreds of thousands of lakes and ponds, but not for us ‘stupid folks’ to do it???

    • It’s called “right of conquest” so yes, if you native americans (I was born here too, idiot) can get enough of you together, and can kill us all or force us to move, I’m good with that. I wish you luck. But I’m good with it.

      Oh, and you really REALLY need to not be telling people to “know your history” when yours is so badly skewed.

    • That was the price your people paid for believing the Fed would take care of you and them. Many whites are now learning the lesson taught to the Indian decades ago. The government will take what it wants and give you the discards and the trash, and then make you pay for it.

    • go tell that to the Native Americans that have to drink radioactive water for the last 50 years… Or is your compassion filter clogged up?

    • I am getting your point… It’s just so sad that people believe you can kick people off their land, promise to help them, don’t follow the treaties. People like these just make me sad… can you add me as a friend?

    • Dumbass, nobody alive today had anything to do with any of the events you are complaining about. Most modern Americans don’t even know they happened.

      You DO need to get over it. Its in the past, it cant be changed, and nobody alive today had diddley squat to do with it.

    • there were never, ever 100 million people in all the Americas period. At best, there may have been ten million. You just pull numbers out of your ass.

    • And red people used to cut scalps off human beings for trophies, so maybe they needed killing. Maybe the modern world didnt have room for that bullshit.

    • if you drank radioactive water for 50 years you’d all be bald and cancer-ridden. get the fuck over your ridiculous lies and exaggerations.

    • Seriously? You still believe the smallpox blanket hoax? Think about it, there was no vaccine for smallpox, so if soldiers were handing out smallpox infested blankets, they would have contracted smallpox, as well. If you think you’re the only one that has had bad things happen in his family’s history, you’re not too bright. Most of us just move forward, rather than wallow in the past. Time to put on some big boy pants and make your life count for something, in spite of what may have happened to your ancestors.

    • So native Americans didn’t wage war against each other? They didn’t kill other native Americans? Wow, just wow.

    • Really? You can’t disagree without being a jerk? Maybe you should take some anger management classes.

    • It is the facts get over it,
      Now when the indians killed the white man that was taking their country that was OK.
      We now can do the same things with the Mexicans and Muslims?
      Oh by the way if the Mexicans are N A THEY NEED TO BE ON A RESERVATION.
      Oh and by the way Indians killed Indians for hunting grounds.
      So do not act like Indians are oh so wise and good.

    • I have indian blood. If all races that were here before 1491
      were to vanish they would all die. It would never be the same.
      Too much knowledge has died.
      Yes I have indian blood but I am a VERY PROUD white man.

    • You believe it because you’ve been conditioned to believe it, and you want to believe it, not because it can be supported by facts. Again, how is it the soldiers handing out small pox blankets did not contract small pox themselves? Do you think they had them sealed in plastic bags? Suspend your belief system for a few minutes, and think how the soldiers could prevent contracting the disease themselves. If you are intellectually honest with yourself, you’ll realize it couldn’t have occurred as you’ve been taught. BTW, quit telling everyone you disagree with to ‘get an education’. You don’t have any knowledge of the education levels of anyone commenting here, and your need to insult those you disagree with is generally an indication that deep down, you know you’re wrong.

    • 100 million, lol. The number gets bigger every time I hear it. The Europeans came and started settling. They traded and bartered with Indians. Some Indians were violent and murdered quite a few of them. As the Europeans multiplied they actually paid the Indians for land that the Indians claimed to be their territory. Disputes arose, agreements were broken and wrongs were done on both sides. In the end the Europeans brought bigger guns and began implementing their will more and more. There we have the history of early American development. There we have a similar history to the ways of the whole world. Were wrongs done? Of course. They certainly were not done to you and no one in this country is holding back Native Americans from prosperity and success.
      The only ones still suffering from this are those who are deceived by Satan to carry around a root of bitterness and an entitlement mentality.

    • Yep, Kev, you’re a liberal. We can tell because you are unfamiliar with population demographics and with simple math. Most of the people now living in the U.S. have Zero to do with the disposition of the preceding immigrants from Asia, now called ‘native Americans’. Therefore, trying to extract apologies is not useful, and is inappropriate. I recommend that if you wish to practice bigotry, and say “you white people” to unfamiliar people of undetermined racial background, then you should ditch the white boy name.

    • I am a proud patriot American, my skin color has nothing to do with it,I am half Native Indian and half Irish..but I am an American first..

    • Kevin – I’m Blackfeet and I just want you to know the fact. The fact is t wasn’t Americans who introduced the ill fated blankets it was Europeans as it was done long before there was an America. Just so you know friend.

    • There were at least that many when the Conquistadors arrived. You need to learn how to read if you haven’t heard this bit of History. When the Brits encountered resistance from Native Americans, they murdered them using germ warfare and as a result we had a mere fraction left by the time the United States was formed.

    • HA ha ha ha “hoax” You’re addressing a Native American and putting forth a BS lie just because you think s/he is stupid, well I’m not stupid, and I’m calling your BS, and here is a lesson for you: not everyone died from smallpox, those that lived were immune, and many people were immune because they milked cows. So don’t put forth such stupid lies.

    • My ancestors on my father’s side date back to the nearly the start of America for white people. They risked their lives doing so back then as did many people from many other countries. They were escaping persecution, poverty, etc.

      If there are people who I feel have been given a raw deal, the American Indians have always been on the top of my list. In fact, our government over time did everything it could to obliterate them. Considering what immigrants were escaping from, one would have thought they would have treated them better than they did.

      If any vestige of that treatment still remains today, you have a right to feel as you do. Even the history of it gives you that right. You carry a tremendous burden.

      However, do not allow that hate against whites to consume you into thinking all of us are evil people without compassion and sympathy. I am sure that many whites eventually came to realize the injustice of actions taken against the American Indians and made attempts to rectify at least some of it. To do it completely would be impossible.

      Keep in mind what I mentioned earlier. People who came to America were escaping from the same sort of threatment that they eventually applied to the American Indian.
      That same evil exists today. It will be here forever. Whites do not have exclusive ownership of it. Forgive as much as you can in your heart. You say you are liberal. Find the power to find the goodness in others. Even those whom you perceive as your enemy today.

    • I agree with that… the country did become America though and with the naming of a new country native americans were still persecuted then and it continues today…

    • gone through your posts, looks like you are a racist hater … You have far more hater posts than good honest truths… your little picture changes nothing… you will always be a hater….

    • Don’t put words in my mouth I said nothing like that… there is bad blood in all civilizations and always will be….

    • it is not a hoax… It has been noted everywhere… just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it a hoax… google smallpox blankets… the reason white people never died from it was because they were basically immune… Native Americans had not seen it before and it almost always resulted in death… do your research and try not to look stupid as you pull your words out of your ass….

    • So I’m stupid because I disagree with you? Well, lucky you for being the smartest person in the room. BTW, just so you know, I’m Native American.

    • Whites immune to smallpox? Really? I suggest you contact an epidemiologist before you use that as a reason. Never go into battle without the proper ammunition for the weapon. Do your research. . That said… sad as it is to you….whites are there to stay. Personally speaking.. I left. And its not all bad….. we did bring the wheel and the horse Never understood how you got the concept of the circle but not the wheel. Unless its just part of the culture to make your women drag stuff around.

    • We take our technology and see how you survive. When you all die like flies we will come back. Enjoy the quiet.

    • This is what is referred to as natural selection. The weak being conquered by the strong. The people of Europe and Asia have endured this for countless centuries. I don’t know what makes you think you’re any different. People are people, just some more technologically advanced than others. Technology and the willingness to use it to make one’s self stronger is what causes the rise and fall of empires. Bitching about it doesn’t help.

    • actually great british close to scottland It doesn’t matter where my name comes from what has it to do with this forum

    • it seems that it’s so easy for people to tell you to “get over it” when they don’t have to live with the continuing consequences (the radiation , the poor housing and healthcare etc that are direct results of being shunted unto “reservations” and treated as less than human ) i must say that i don’t like the name calling and insults – from you and those responding to you ;we really need to be more civil with each other – but i understand your anger and america as a nation needs to acknowledge the injustice done to your people and try to do more to make up for it …peace

  5. If americans didn’t fight this, there would be no hope left for americans. This case proves humanity in a country as usa (the country considered to be of evil and that everyone don’t wanna meddle with because it’s beyond hope since people most do not care about their fellow mannkind there… *yup*).
    More people should band together against the injust and do what is right. Mindless sheep time should not be acted out any longer… people chose what they wanna be. Change is never easy, but it is easy to be apathich….

  6. If americans didn’t fight this, there would be no hope left for americans. This case proves humanity in a country as usa (the country considered to be of evil and that everyone don’t wanna meddle with because it’s beyond hope since people most do not care about their fellow mannkind there… *yup*).
    More people should band together against the injust and do what is right. Mindless sheep time should not be acted out any longer… people chose what they wanna be. Change is never easy, but it is easy to be apathich….

  7. the people down there need to go to the OFFICE of who started this and protest until that person IS FIRED ..Put the fear of God into them.Be sure to send to EVERY liberal dem you know…tell them you cant blame a republican can you…30 years of dem leading this state into hell

  8. This is the same govt that is charging for rainwater/storm sewer fees in some communities really people!!!! It is time for the citizens to relieve the bureaucrats from their posts!

  9. This is the same govt that is charging for rainwater/storm sewer fees in some communities really people!!!! It is time for the citizens to relieve the bureaucrats from their posts!

  10. All this is. .. power… control. And Money… we are getting charge. For everything. . Wait . Some day. Thr very same air we breathe. . Is gonna have a price. And u still gonnna need a license for it! !!.. what constitution. . What freedom. . It is all make believe

    • you sir are a bit behind the times.
      the air we breathe already has a price, it is called the “carbon emissions tax” which is applied to emissions of CO2 -the gas you breathe out, the same gas that trees require to produce oxygen for us to breathe in

  11. All this is. .. power… control. And Money… we are getting charge. For everything. . Wait . Some day. Thr very same air we breathe. . Is gonna have a price. And u still gonnna need a license for it! !!.. what constitution. . What freedom. . It is all make believe

  12. This article should have been illustrated with the man’s 3 ponds holding 13,000,000 gallons of water–not photos that implied a jail sentence for collecting rain water in barrels.

    • well then you post that pic…..13 million gallons and you say you have seen a pic of them….excellent…..we are waiting

      • Google earth. It’s pretty easy to see the environmental impact he’s had. This guy is pretty destructive and the county has been very patient with him.

        • quit talking and post the connection if you wont shut the heel up, and crawl back under your rock. Your the one destructive. i would also venture to guess that the ponds he has are not totally blocked off or their would be one major problem his whole land would be flooded. Also Ponds are different than dams they are not feed my creeks. Dams are feed by rivers I think you need to study what a pond and dams are.

          • Wow. Remember buddy, friends don’t let friends post drunk. Go look for yourself when you sober up. It took me about 3 minutes to find it last time.

  13. This article should have been illustrated with the man’s 3 ponds holding 13,000,000 gallons of water–not photos that implied a jail sentence for collecting rain water in barrels.

    • well then you post that pic…..13 million gallons and you say you have seen a pic of them….excellent…..we are waiting

    • Google earth. It’s pretty easy to see the environmental impact he’s had. This guy is pretty destructive and the county has been very patient with him.

    • quit talking and post the connection if you wont shut the heel up, and crawl back under your rock. Your the one destructive. i would also venture to guess that the ponds he has are not totally blocked off or their would be one major problem his whole land would be flooded. Also Ponds are different than dams they are not feed my creeks. Dams are feed by rivers I think you need to study what a pond and dams are.

    • Wow. Remember buddy, friends don’t let friends post drunk. Go look for yourself when you sober up. It took me about 3 minutes to find it last time.

  14. this article is full of shit. most water rights laws have been around since the 19th century, and the guy clearly knew he was breaking the law When he applied for permits, was denied, and kept collecting anyway. Despite the headline’s ‘prison sentence’ claim, minimum security jail is much different – but I guess ‘prison’ sure sounds much more enticing for an article headline.

    • You totally refuse to see the point here: THE LAW IS FAULTY. What idiot makes a law that results in making rainwater-collecting illegal?! You don’t see the point here? Sheep?

    • he applied for and then got the permits then they were striped from him were you even reading the aticallor were you writing your response as you read what youwanted to read.

  15. this article is full of shit. most water rights laws have been around since the 19th century, and the guy clearly knew he was breaking the law When he applied for permits, was denied, and kept collecting anyway. Despite the headline’s ‘prison sentence’ claim, minimum security jail is much different – but I guess ‘prison’ sure sounds much more enticing for an article headline.

    • You totally refuse to see the point here: THE LAW IS FAULTY. What idiot makes a law that results in making rainwater-collecting illegal?! You don’t see the point here? Sheep?

    • he applied for and then got the permits then they were striped from him were you even reading the aticallor were you writing your response as you read what youwanted to read.

  16. This is one of the few times where I would support an armed response against any government official who stepped onto my land to try to enforce such outrageously uncivil ‘laws’.

  17. This is one of the few times where I would support an armed response against any government official who stepped onto my land to try to enforce such outrageously uncivil ‘laws’.

  18. This country turns murderers and rapists back out into the streets but arrests and convicts a man for collecting rainwater on his own property???? Freedom…..WHAT freedom? Living in another country is looking better every day.

  19. This country turns murderers and rapists back out into the streets but arrests and convicts a man for collecting rainwater on his own property???? Freedom…..WHAT freedom? Living in another country is looking better every day.

  20. the photos suggest the old guy had a few rain barrels but in fact he was impounding thousands and thousands of gallons in 3 ponds and stocking them with fish, preventing others from being able to access water which would have naturally run onto their properties….he was horder, not just an innocent little gardener. If you live in the dry west you have to use a small amount and share with everyone else, not be greedy with a very limited resource

    • It has been proven that IF more people collected their own rainwater they wouldn’t have the drought. As they would not need to use more water from their taps and the water reserves–only 3% of rain water actually makes it to the streams and rivers that fill the underground water system, the other 97% feeds the plants where it falls or evaporates.

      If people were allowed to collect it, they could use that as opposed to drawing from the cities water source.

  21. the photos suggest the old guy had a few rain barrels but in fact he was impounding millions of gallons in 3 ponds and stocking them with fish, preventing others from being able to access water which would have naturally run onto their properties….he was horder, not just an innocent little gardener. If you live in the dry west you have to use a small amount and share with everyone else, not be greedy with a very limited resource

    • It has been proven that IF more people collected their own rainwater they wouldn’t have the drought. As they would not need to use more water from their taps and the water reserves–only 3% of rain water actually makes it to the streams and rivers that fill the underground water system, the other 97% feeds the plants where it falls or evaporates.

      If people were allowed to collect it, they could use that as opposed to drawing from the cities water source.

  22. This story is SO deliberately misleading. The pictures of rain collecting barrels only makes this so much more misleading. He was NOT collecting rainwater from his own property, he damned two streams that ran THROUGH his property, thus collecting rain water and snowmelt that fell FAR upstream from his property. Medford’s water supply depends on the Big Butte Creek watershed. That watershed depends on ALL the creeks and streams that feed it. If every landowner damned off the streams that ran through their property the creek that the city depends on would disappear. This is such bullshit propaganda with the most misleading pictures and story ever.

    • Actually, they are not misleading, because even using the rain barrels a person could be arrested and charged as well. And it’s not just Oregon.

      In Utah, a few years back a Toyota dealer built a system in order to reclaim the water that fell on the roof of HIS Property to use for washing cars at his business. The state stepped in because they didn’t like he was using that rain water to reclaim and use. They claimed it was “THEIR WATER” hog wash..it’s not their water..rain water does not belong to the state.

      Allowing people to collect their own rainwater actually decreases the demand for water coming out of the aquifers so there is more water for everyone else, and it improves conservation, as they are less likely to use tap water or a water hose to water their plants and gardens. In Douglas County Colorado, they did a study that showed only 3% of the rainwater actually went into the streams and rivers, 97% evaporated or seeped into the ground right where it landed. They actually determined that IF more people collected rain water–there would not be a water shortage.

      Did you know that 20% of the Human genome has been patented by scientists? Thus they claim they ‘own’ those genes–this went before the Supreme Court Myraid Genetics tried to say they owned those genes, Thankfully, Justice Clarence Thomas ruled against them. Lest 20% of your body and mine would be owned by Universities and the various corporations paying for research on the human genome. Over 40k in genes have been patented, by the US Government..so these corporations seem to think because they have isolated certain genes they should have ownership of them–which means they would own at least 20% of your person.

      • I think this is reason enough to start a petition across the states . God’s water is free , He cleanses ….it’s the governments filth ,greed and control that needs to be “put in check”

        • Native Americans died because they thought things around them was sacred, attributing it to gods and spirits. Be careful doing the same thing…you’ll be disappointed at the end.

      • If it didn’t happen for the reasons exposed in the article, it’s misleading.
        It doesn’t matter what could happen or what has already happened, this is not the topic of this article.

      • And therein lies the rub… If you collect a naturally occurring element (rain/snow), you depribe the “State” revenue they charge you for supplying same said resource to you. This is one reason Local Governments are moving against anyone who wants to live off-grid… It has become a vicious circle, the ultimate goal is to keep us dependant (enslaved) on them for services. Look at property taxes… you pay that yearly, so you really don’t own the land you are on, you merely lease it from some Government entity.

    • I can understand that! Very misleading! U shouldn’t be able to dame a natural water way no matter if its own your property are not. I stand with the state on that one.

  23. This story is SO deliberately misleading. The pictures of rain collecting barrels only makes this so much more misleading. He was NOT collecting rainwater from his own property, he damned two streams that ran THROUGH his property, thus collecting rain water and snowmelt that fell FAR upstream from his property. Medford’s water supply depends on the Big Butte Creek watershed. That watershed depends on ALL the creeks and streams that feed it. If every landowner damned off the streams that ran through their property the creek that the city depends on would disappear. This is such bullshit propaganda with the most misleading pictures and story ever.

    • Actually, they are not misleading, because even using the rain barrels a person could be arrested and charged as well. And it’s not just Oregon.

      In Utah, a few years back a Toyota dealer built a system in order to reclaim the water that fell on the roof of HIS Property to use for washing cars at his business. The state stepped in because they didn’t like he was using that rain water to reclaim and use. They claimed it was “THEIR WATER” hog wash..it’s not their water..rain water does not belong to the state.

      Allowing people to collect their own rainwater actually decreases the demand for water coming out of the aquifers so there is more water for everyone else, and it improves conservation, as they are less likely to use tap water or a water hose to water their plants and gardens. In Douglas County Colorado, they did a study that showed only 3% of the rainwater actually went into the streams and rivers, 97% evaporated or seeped into the ground right where it landed. They actually determined that IF more people collected rain water–there would not be a water shortage.

      Did you know that 20% of the Human genome has been patented by scientists? Thus they claim they ‘own’ those genes–this went before the Supreme Court Myraid Genetics tried to say they owned those genes, Thankfully, Justice Clarence Thomas ruled against them. Lest 20% of your body and mine would be owned by Universities and the various corporations paying for research on the human genome. Over 40k in genes have been patented, by the US Government..so these corporations seem to think because they have isolated certain genes they should have ownership of them–which means they would own at least 20% of your person.

    • I think this is reason enough to start a petition across the states . God’s water is free , He cleanses ….it’s the governments filth ,greed and control that needs to be “put in check”

    • I can understand that! Very misleading! U shouldn’t be able to dame a natural water way no matter if its own your property are not. I stand with the state on that one.

    • If it didn’t happen for the reasons exposed in the article, it’s misleading.
      It doesn’t matter what could happen or what has already happened, this is not the topic of this article.

    • Native Americans died because they thought things around them was sacred, attributing it to gods and spirits. Be careful doing the same thing…you’ll be disappointed at the end.

    • And therein lies the rub… If you collect a naturally occurring element (rain/snow), you depribe the “State” revenue they charge you for supplying same said resource to you. This is one reason Local Governments are moving against anyone who wants to live off-grid… It has become a vicious circle, the ultimate goal is to keep us dependant (enslaved) on them for services. Look at property taxes… you pay that yearly, so you really don’t own the land you are on, you merely lease it from some Government entity.

  24. God created rain and everything on the planet for man kind, not to be controlled by man.
    Rain water is much safer and healthier for us then all the chemicals in the city water.
    Also it is still not pure because chem trails spread throughout our skies by planes.
    Harrington has every right to preserve and reuse water from the sky on his property!
    The government wants everyone to be controlled and polluted by the toxins they so
    freely provide for us, and destroy what little is left of a natural world in the process!! Shake my head , disturbing!!

    • Native Americans died because they thought things around them was
      sacred, attributing it to gods and spirits. Be careful doing the same
      thing…you’ll be disappointed at the end!

      • That is about the most ignorant comment on this whole thread. Indians knew how to thrive on their land. It had nothing to do with their spiritual beliefs. ignoramus

        • Native Americans died and lost their land because they didn’t believe men could own such things. The white man proved the natives wrong, with the barrel of a gun. As for their spiritual beliefs, they were 100% correct. White men violate those too, routinely and in spades.

  25. God created rain and everything on the planet for man kind, not to be controlled by man.
    Rain water is much safer and healthier for us then all the chemicals in the city water.
    Also it is still not pure because chem trails spread throughout our skies by planes.
    Harrington has every right to preserve and reuse water from the sky on his property!
    The government wants everyone to be controlled and polluted by the toxins they so
    freely provide for us, and destroy what little is left of a natural world in the process!! Shake my head , disturbing!!

    • Native Americans died because they thought things around them was
      sacred, attributing it to gods and spirits. Be careful doing the same
      thing…you’ll be disappointed at the end!

    • That is about the most ignorant comment on this whole thread. Indians knew how to thrive on their land. It had nothing to do with their spiritual beliefs. ignoramus

    • Native Americans died and lost their land because they didn’t believe men could own such things. The white man proved the natives wrong, with the barrel of a gun. As for their spiritual beliefs, they were 100% correct. White men violate those too, routinely and in spades.

  26. Every one seems to miss the point, doesn’t matter where you go with it, the tributary is funneling run off from his property…. the government does not own rainwater, it is not a commodity to be bought or sold, including by a corporate government. And yes if it is in the middle of his 170 Acers, he has the right to protect it in case of fire…if people got together and came up with a plan from those upstream of them, I am sure grown adults can figure it out equitably, with out government interference!

  27. Every one seems to miss the point, doesn’t matter where you go with it, the tributary is funneling run off from his property…. the government does not own rainwater, it is not a commodity to be bought or sold, including by a corporate government. And yes if it is in the middle of his 170 Acers, he has the right to protect it in case of fire…if people got together and came up with a plan from those upstream of them, I am sure grown adults can figure it out equitably, with out government interference!

  28. He wasn’t “collecting rainwater”, he was damming three streams that feed into a river. The guy’s got enough water backed up to fill 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools, and he’s stocking the reservoirs with bluegill and trout- he’s even built docks on the three reservoirs he created.

    It’s bad enough that this site published a misleading headline; that you published the pictures of rain barrels is a crime against journalism.

    • He owns the land, therefore he owns everything on it!! Suck to suck little town that didn’t think to secure you towns water source..

      • That is just simply wrong. There isn’t a society on the planet that allows someone to block the flow of streams and rivers simply because those bodies of water cross their land. There’s a reason that this guy keeps on losing in court, and that’s because what he’s doing isn’t legal. Does the name Simon Bar Sinister ring any bells?

        Hell, most humans have moral objections to this type of self-centered bullshit- which not only threatens water supplies, but also threatens lives if engineered improperly- to the point where crappy, outrage-generating websites have to shamelessly misrepresent the facts in order to drive traffic.

  29. He wasn’t “collecting rainwater”, he was damming three streams that feed into a river. The guy’s got enough water backed up to fill 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools, and he’s stocking the reservoirs with bluegill and trout- he’s even built docks on the three reservoirs he created.

    It’s bad enough that this site published a misleading headline; that you published the pictures of rain barrels is a crime against journalism.

    • He owns the land, therefore he owns everything on it!! Suck to suck little town that didn’t think to secure you towns water source..

    • That is just simply wrong. There isn’t a society on the planet that allows private-property owners to block the flow of streams and rivers simply because those bodies of water cross their land. There’s a reason that this guy keeps on losing in court, and that’s because what he’s doing isn’t legal. Does the name Simon Bar Sinister ring any bells?

      Hell, most humans have moral objections to this type of self-centered bullshit- which not only threatens water supplies, but also threatens lives if engineered improperly- to the point where crappy, outrage-generating websites have to shamelessly misrepresent the facts in order to drive traffic.

  30. It is great when someone post things without actually researching. this man had reservoirs, NOT RAIN BARRELS like the pictures in this misleading article makes you believe. He built illegal damn that interrupted the natural course of rain water and melted snow down a stream affecting ALL ecosystem around his property! And that was after warnings were issued, he was arrested because he has stopped water to follow its natural course and had been told to stop enviromental agencies and he didnt! Such a great journalist misleading people in such stupid post, water belongs to everybody, including FAUNA & FLORA, and this man was affecting a whole ecosystem for his own benefit, that is exploutation of natural resources, i hope he stays in jail and serves as an example!

    http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

  31. It is great when someone post things without actually researching. this man had reservoirs, NOT RAIN BARRELS like the pictures in this misleading article makes you believe. He built illegal damn that interrupted the natural course of rain water and melted snow down a stream affecting ALL ecosystem around his property! And that was after warnings were issued, he was arrested because he has stopped water to follow its natural course and had been told to stop enviromental agencies and he didnt! Such a great journalist misleading people in such stupid post, water belongs to everybody, including FAUNA & FLORA, and this man was affecting a whole ecosystem for his own benefit, that is exploutation of natural resources, i hope he stays in jail and serves as an example!

    http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

  32. So if the government owns the rain, does that include the clouds that make it and if this is ownership, then is the “government” responsible if the rain causes flood damage?

  33. So if the government owns the rain, does that include the clouds that make it and if this is ownership, then is the “government” responsible if the rain causes flood damage?

  34. i should think that whoever sold him his rain barrel-reservoirs is just as guilty or has a contributing guilt. its seemingly not illegal to buy and own the barrels, just illegal to collect rainwater.there is an underlying issue that hasn’t been disclosed, me thinks. i wish him all the luck in the world. his town has lost its sense of priority.

    • Yes, join the water conservation effort and collect your own rain water, 97% of which evaporates and seeps into the ground on YOUR property only 3% actually makes it into the water ways..if you collect your own rain water, you are helping conserve the water (by using less tap water) and using what would merely evaporate.

  35. i should think that whoever sold him his rain barrel-reservoirs is just as guilty or has a contributing guilt. its seemingly not illegal to buy and own the barrels, just illegal to collect rainwater.there is an underlying issue that hasn’t been disclosed, me thinks. i wish him all the luck in the world. his town has lost its sense of priority.

    • Yes, join the water conservation effort and collect your own rain water, 97% of which evaporates and seeps into the ground on YOUR property only 3% actually makes it into the water ways..if you collect your own rain water, you are helping conserve the water (by using less tap water) and using what would merely evaporate.

  36. I have never ever hear of anything so bloody stupid in all my life. Rainwater is free. Period.

  37. I have never ever hear of anything so bloody stupid in all my life. Rainwater is free. Period.

  38. The EPA has declared that if you can float a toy boat in it, it falls under the Navigeable Waters Act.
    The use of regulatory agencies to impose the force of laws, laws which were never enacted by any legislative body, nor signed by any elected executive, is the problem.

  39. The EPA has declared that if you can float a toy boat in it, it falls under the Navigeable Waters Act.
    The use of regulatory agencies to impose the force of laws, laws which were never enacted by any legislative body, nor signed by any elected executive, is the problem.

  40. Water is God given…..the Water Council or whatever they are called in Oregon are mad…if I was him I would ask them for the rain not to fall on his property that he does not want it and start charging them every time it rained……Greed will be the downfall of everyone concerned…..they should applaud him for helping conserve water and not waste it…..who made it illegal?

  41. Water is God given…..the Water Council or whatever they are called in Oregon are mad…if I was him I would ask them for the rain not to fall on his property that he does not want it and start charging them every time it rained……Greed will be the downfall of everyone concerned…..they should applaud him for helping conserve water and not waste it…..who made it illegal?

  42. The main problem lies with the Medford Oregon area water district officials. I had very similar problems with them on my gold claim in neighboring Josephine county. I couldn’t pump water up to my highbanker without settling ponds (2) When I started digging settling ponds they came back and stopped me saying the river water was too low to be taking ANYTHING from it. The two ponds were about 50 feet in diameter and 2-3 feet deep with the naturally filtered clean seepage going back into the river! Southern Oregon water district is run by a few
    assholes that need to be removed from the office.

    • Then stop complaining and do something about the “few assholes that need to be removed from the office “. However, this article is very misleading. The pictures of rain being collected in barrels from a roof is just as misleading as the article itself. Unfortunately, half truths are just as bad as half lies. If you are going to report on something, at least be better than your opponents and tell the whole truth.
      I agree that the man has valid arguments, but he still needs to obey the laws until he gets enough people, or laws that back his arguments, to win each individual count. Until then, follow the laws and continue to fight. Unless he enjoys jail, not prison, time. I doubt seriously they would go to the expense and mountain of paperwork it would take to process him into the state prison system. He will likely be serving his time in a city or county jail. A BIG difference.

  43. The main problem lies with the Medford Oregon area water district officials. I had very similar problems with them on my gold claim in neighboring Josephine county. I couldn’t pump water up to my highbanker without settling ponds (2) When I started digging settling ponds they came back and stopped me saying the river water was too low to be taking ANYTHING from it. The two ponds were about 50 feet in diameter and 2-3 feet deep with the naturally filtered clean seepage going back into the river! Southern Oregon water district is run by a few
    assholes that need to be removed from the office.

    • Then stop complaining and do something about the “few assholes that need to be removed from the office “. However, this article is very misleading. The pictures of rain being collected in barrels from a roof is just as misleading as the article itself. Unfortunately, half truths are just as bad as half lies. If you are going to report on something, at least be better than your opponents and tell the whole truth.
      I agree that the man has valid arguments, but he still needs to obey the laws until he gets enough people, or laws that back his arguments, to win each individual count. Until then, follow the laws and continue to fight. Unless he enjoys jail, not prison, time. I doubt seriously they would go to the expense and mountain of paperwork it would take to process him into the state prison system. He will likely be serving his time in a city or county jail. A BIG difference.

  44. So corporations like Nestle can take (steal) millions of gallons of
    water from entire communities without permission and it seems, without
    valid certification or license. But one man goes to prison for
    collecting rain water? How is this fair? This sickens me.

    • Speaking of Nestles, they are taking water from Lake Michigan and selling it to China, to the tune of +$250M/year, in violation of the Great Lakes compact of states, but for some loop-hole.

  45. So corporations like Nestle can take (steal) millions of gallons of
    water from entire communities without permission and it seems, without
    valid certification or license. But one man goes to prison for
    collecting rain water? How is this fair? This sickens me.

    • Speaking of Nestles, they are taking water from Lake Michigan and selling it to China, to the tune of +$250M/year, in violation of the Great Lakes compact of states, but for some loop-hole.

  46. Do you like your free phone? Do you like your piddly little government check? Then you WILL ACCEPT the government’s dominion of the very rain itself. Next they will “license” air.

  47. Do you like your free phone? Do you like your piddly little government check? Then you WILL ACCEPT the government’s dominion of the very rain itself. Next they will “license” air.

  48. i live in canada but it sound like the country of the strong and free USA became a dictatorship…..you know people if you keep sleeping than all your rights will be taken….water is a basic right so is air ….and they happen to be free as a gift from nature.

  49. i live in canada but it sound like the country of the strong and free USA became a dictatorship…..you know people if you keep sleeping than all your rights will be taken….water is a basic right so is air ….and they happen to be free as a gift from nature.

  50. They do NOT control the RAIN/SNOW!!! When are you going to pass the law where we have to ask permission to breathe? I mean seriously this is UTTERLY DISGRACEFUL, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!

    • Slanted article; pictures show barrels when he had actual ‘ponds’ and diverted stream water.

  51. They do NOT control the RAIN/SNOW!!! When are you going to pass the law where we have to ask permission to breathe? I mean seriously this is UTTERLY DISGRACEFUL, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!

    • Slanted article; pictures show barrels when he had actual ‘ponds’ and diverted stream water.

  52. The government is going to lose this one. Rain falls on the guys land, it is his water and he can do what he wants with it as long as there isn’t a creek flowing through his property and he hasn’t dammed up the creek.

  53. The government is going to lose this one. Rain falls on the guys land, it is his water and he can do what he wants with it as long as there isn’t a creek flowing through his property and he hasn’t dammed up the creek.

  54. Thank God I do not live in Socialist Oregon or Commiefornia, if it falls on my property it belongs to me not some stupid bureaucratic city, state, county, or federal agency.

  55. Most likely he wasn’t paying for water. It’s not illegal to collect rain water. It is illegal not to have service for water and sewer. .

  56. Most likely he wasn’t paying for water. It’s not illegal to collect rain water. It is illegal not to have service for water and sewer. .

  57. as a HUMAN not an american … ( wtf is american … does that also include south america ? …
    😛 just wondering 😀

  58. as a HUMAN not an american … ( wtf is american … does that also include south america ? …
    😛 just wondering 😀